Lets Simplify! (the game)

The point of this thread is for members to come with ideas on how to simplify the game without destroying it. Most football managing games are downright stupid. FM is the only one who can work past this, but God! The game can be so frustrating!

I shall explain what i hate in this game followed with what i find to be suitable solutions:

-Every player has like 40 attributes... who cares? Flair? What the hell is flair? And then there are attributes who sound like synonyms. I'm not always very sure. Besides, is it really important to differ Acceleration with Pace(velocity?)? Sure the things are different, but it's pure avoidable complexity!

Funny thing is, they tell us not to look at the overall qualities of the player but only to some specific characteristics, depending on the player's position. So why the 40? Does anyone look at them all when searching a player?

And each attribute has a value from 1 to 20... geeeeeeez. How can you even evaluate a player's Long Throws ability from 1 to 20?

Would it be so hard to reduce the number of attributes, make it more simple and direct, put values from 1 to 5 instead of 1 to 20, and change it with words! (Like Awful, Average, Brilliant...) Yes, Drop the Numbers! Football aint about numbers... or maybe it is. But not to us fans. And you're selling games to football fans, not coaches with degrees on football coaching. And even them will ram their heads against the wall for all the complexity of the game!

-Divide attributes by similarity. instead of "Technical, Mental and Physical", make something more specific.

-Drop the freaking notchs!! "Team, we're loosing at home! Wingers, set your mentality three notchs up, right striker one up, full backs two up! As for tempo... wait, let me look at your stats to see if you guys can take a faster gaming style without screwing it up... all the eleven... won't take too long I hope. Wider or narrower? I'm not sure. Last time i dropped two notchs to a more narrow style in the last ten minutes, to defend the 2-0 lead we were having away, they scored three freaking goals... i think i'll just leave things as they are on that one...". Can't we again have something that goes from 1 to 5 notchs? Instead of the 1-20?

-Make it so that standard tactics actually work! Oh yes that would be awesome! Instead of forcing us to go trial and error until we find a tactic that works (many times by accident), can't we finally have standard tactics that work, depending on the opponents tactic and ability and our own ability. Right now i rarely make anything out of them.

You talk about realism. Truth is, FM allows for horrible results beyond comprehension, frustrating gamers. And in the other hand the same tactical system the game uses also allows for a team which is expected to be relegated, to be instead promoted to the premier league, win it two years later, and by the fifth year you've a champions league title in the pocket... not very common in real life.

What about a system that takes us gamers as real unexperienced coachs, but coachs nonetheless. Instead of the magoos with low tactical understanding that most of us are? Make it so that the more we advance through the years, the more experience we gain, the better the outcome of a situation will be. What I mean is, in two exactly alike situations, the outcome will be better for us depending on the level of years of experience we have, titles won, etc.

Even better, allow for us to set our own level of ability before starting a new save! So to set ourselves to "Great Ability" would be like turning the game into Easy mode, while "Poor Ability" would set it to Hard mode. On Hard(or poor ability), tactical knowledge would be important to get good results and eventually turn the "poor ability" into "good", after years of experience. This would be a great challenge for the better gamers. I feel this method of allowing the gamer to set between easier and harder before starting a new save would be great for everyone. It would be great for those who love to spend hours building up magical tactics (Hard difficulty players), while also allowing great fun for the many of us who prefer the other side of the game of building teams, buying players and selling, growing youths, etc, without having to put too much focus on tactical issues. Hell, even allow a "Wonderkid coach" mode that basically would be like a Very Easy set...

I think this could be crucial to Football Manager. As long as people adapt to a set difficulty, they will continue playing. Starting saves on harder difficulties when they already feel comfortable with lower ones.

I think this could kill a lot of the frustration many players feel...

-Allow us, as young coachs, to be contracted to train Youth Squads or B Squads, making our coaching development more realistic.

_______

Simplify the game. Or at least make it so that we can choose between complex and simplified. And allow for choosing between Difficulty levels.

What do you think? Cheers

No no no to having attributes from 1-5. Horrendous idea. As for making the game more accessable to ultra casual players i think there could be a difficulty setting. All it would have to be is the lower the difficulty, the lower the attributes of the opposing team when you are playing them in a match. That way casually made and dodgy or default tactics could still get you results. Meanwhile those who like making their own tactics as well as the game's current difficulty level can play the game at this normal level and enjoy their game too.

To be honest I really disagree with simplifying the game. FM is the only sports game that really feels like you've accomplished something when you win a league or cup. Every other sports game out there is easy to dominate once you get the hang of it. Complexity and attention to detail is what sets FM apart.

I know you've probably heard this before but there are some ways to deal with the tactical difficulty. Download the pre-made tactics in the TT&F, they work great. I never change notches in my tactics during the game. The TT&F have an attacking, standard, and a defensive tactic for many different formations and I change them at appropriate times and do fine. I might make slight tweaks to the TT&F tactics depending on general personnel abilities but other than that don't fiddle with them too much. I do completely agree with you that the pre-made tactics that come with the game are garbage.

If the attributes are too difficult to get a handle on, get an Ass. Man with good JPA and JPP. That makes it pretty simple to figure out who's good and who's not for the level your club is at. I personally love the depth of player attributes.

While I think there are a lot of people that are frustrated with the game I think there are far more who are enjoying it, they just don't come on the forum as often to say that they love it. I'm not saying in anyway you don't have a right to complain about what you don't like but I think the vast majority of people that play the game love it the way it is and would probably be disappointed if SI made the game easier and less in depth.

Quite simply, no.

Lots of attributes are required to give depth to players, certainly things like long throws are not very important and so I mostly ignore that stat when evaluating a player. The other pair you brought up, pace and acceleration are two totally different things, you might have a guy who isn't particularly fast over a long distance but his first two steps are as good as anyone so he can might be able to hang on the last defender and get that bit of space behind but he isn't going to run it down the wing taking people on from distance.

As for 1-5 for stats it is completely ridiculous, 20 seems to be the traditional number an one that works. 5 is far far too few, I'm playing in Malaysia right now where 10 in an excellent rating for a key attribute, how do you expect to be able to tell the difference between players when all their other attributes will be a 1 on your system. As it is I can see a guy with an 8 is far ahead of a guy with a 5, both would class as a 2 on your scheme.

I'm not going to go into tactical stuff but I never look at the tactics forum, considering it a bit boring to take someone elses tactic that probably doesn't fit my players abilites. The thing is if you prepare a sensible formation that focuses on using the best skills of your players it does work, of course later on you can buy players with the right skills for your favourite style.

-Every player has like 40 attributes... who cares? Flair? What the hell is flair? And then there are attributes who sound like synonyms. I'm not always very sure. Besides, is it really important to differ Acceleration with Pace(velocity?)? Sure the things are different, but it's pure avoidable complexity!

realism, a manager would know it irl so i want to know in game, besides you don't have to look at them all.

Funny thing is, they tell us not to look at the overall qualities of the player but only to some specific characteristics, depending on the player's position. So why the 40? Does anyone look at them all when searching a player?

No, they say to focus on certain attributes not just look at those and ignore the rest, the other attributes still impact on the player they're just not as important.

put values from 1 to 5 instead of 1 to 20

Yes, Drop the Numbers! Football aint about numbers...

no, no, no. going by that you'd have each number equivalent to 4 points in the current system? 4 points can be a huge difference in FM. And you realise you can have it in those bar things right?

-Divide attributes by similarity. instead of "Technical, Mental and Physical", make something more specific.

I don't see a problem with the current system tbh.

-Drop the freaking notchs!!

Finally something I can agree with

-Make it so that standard tactics actually work! Oh yes that would be awesome! Instead of forcing us to go trial and error until we find a tactic that works (many times by accident), can't we finally have standard tactics that work, depending on the opponents tactic and ability and our own ability. Right now i rarely make anything out of them.

I don't personally enjoy making tactics but many do, and I've used standard 4-4-2 for the last 5 seasons with Everton and 6 seasons with FC United, successful in both.

To be honest I only really look at the figure a player has if i'm going to use him as say a free kick taker etc.

I do agree with the notches though as they can screw you up big time if yu get them just one notch out of place either way.

The tactics can be good even the standard ones. I went against this and modified a tactic to a 4-1-2-1-2 and it's been pretty successful for me

SI are striving to make the game more user-friendly in FM10. Maybe you aren't reading the discussions. User-friendly = good. Simplify = bad. There are simple arcadey games on the market if that's your bag.

I just posted this elsewhere, but this thread is a bit of a goer. So,

The only way to make this game interesting enough to make me want to play it regularly again is by fixing the tactics, and the repetitiveness.

Players have to have more plain common sense. Conceding corners from the center circle? 'Clearing' a ball into the middle of the field, to opp. attackers? From the CORNER FLAG? it is just simple simple stuff that you can't control.

For all the complicated fiddling with (worthwhile?) sliders and matching player's styles I still can't tell my players to JUST PLAY FOOTBALL. Like how I play football. Graft, composure, common sense.

It must be fixable. Please let it be fixable...

My humble fm2010 requests: Less money. Less sliders. More player talk options (in game and attribute related, eg Walcott "work on your headers son"). Coaching sessions.

Despite the big patch improvements, '09 is Chelsea under Mourinho. Solid but soulless.

Hell no! This game can't be simplified. Look what such a "simplification" did with cool games like Simcity Each manager has his own tactic, and prefers another skill to other, so merging the skills isn't good idea indeed.

it all comes down to an each to their own argument. I love the complexity, i dont want to pick it up and play. I want to have to think on my feet and be challenged. Like its been said alot, there are other games on the market that are very simple and can be just picked up, for me i think the complexity is fine!

Don't all the stats in the 22 players starting the game get calculated by the match engine in order to produce a match?

If so, taking away some stats would mean having to tweak the match engine around, and we know how disastrous that could be.

pretty sure it does, my main problem is with the 1-5 stats instead of 1-20. I mean basically its saying striker A and Stiker B.

With 1-20:

Stiker A: Striker B:

Finishing 15 Finishing 13

Off the ball 14 Off the ball 12

Concentration 15 Concentration 15

Flair 13 Flair 12

With 1-5

Stiker A: Striker B:

Finishing 4 Finishing 4

Off the ball 4 Off the ball 4

Concentration 4 Concentration 4

Flair 3 Flair 3

So you buy striker A as he looks the same and you like his name or some pointless fact but he is actually the poorer player.

No. No. No. Big No. Hell No.

I have voiced my opinion as requesting SI implement a way to scale the difficulty, and I still think there are things they can and should do. However, as I get more into FM, I am finding that there are things that the player can do to tailor their FM experience. You can't change what FM is, but you can change how you play it. So keep it simple. I highly recommend the following thread from the tactics forum, which discusses at length how an FM player can keep things at a basic level:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=115392

Play the game like this for awhile, become familiar and then adept at what is in front of you, and then develop and expand your game from there. I echo the sentiments of others in this thread-this game is for the patient and the learner. And don't take quirky results or shortcomings in the game's design too seriously. If you're going to spend time playing a computer game, you should find it enjoyable or spend it elsewhere.

Flair means if they player wants to try and beat there man with skills iirc

No chance. Keep improving the match system S.I. Every new version you revamp the game slightly with add-ons and this keeps me interested!

Not the way to go

I don't think there was 1 point i agree with i'm afraid!

Flair? What the hell is flair? And then there are attributes who sound like synonyms. I'm not always very sure. Besides, is it really important to differ Acceleration with Pace(velocity?)? Sure the things are different, but it's pure avoidable complexity!

Flair is the ability to do the unexpected I believe. And acceleration is different to pace, acceleration is how quickly you can reach your top speed (pace) I think so I'd say it's quite important.

The game could probably do with some more attributes tbh, can't think of any right now mind.

Matapatos - Go and play with your barbie dolls. they come with one attribute and that sounds about your level

I know very well the difference between Acellaration with Pace in real life for Christ sake. But how do they play in the game?

pretty sure it does, my main problem is with the 1-5 stats instead of 1-20. I mean basically its saying striker A and Stiker B.

With 1-20:

Stiker A: Striker B:

Finishing 15 Finishing 13

Off the ball 14 Off the ball 12

Concentration 15 Concentration 15

Flair 13 Flair 12

With 1-5

Stiker A: Striker B:

Finishing 4 Finishing 4

Off the ball 4 Off the ball 4

Concentration 4 Concentration 4

Flair 3 Flair 3

So you buy striker A as he looks the same and you like his name or some pointless fact but he is actually the poorer player.

You could also have a 6 for "extraordinary" ability .

Please, pick real life examples and tell me what's a player with Shooting ability of 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20.

Give me one name for each of this levels of ability and tell me why. If 1-5 ain't to much, make it 1-7, or 1-10. The 20 numbers are needless. You like them because you are used to them. I play this since the old CMs and at the time the attributes didn't bother me probably because i could actually do something out of tactics. And tactics felt more important than players. Now it feels like the way around, so i actually have to pay much more attention to all of those numbers...

But i understand why you prefer the 1-20...

Anyway, i still believe there are too many notchs on the tactical sliders and it's unrealistic how many times, switching to defense, for instance, actually makes your team more vulnerable to suffer a goal, being better to just leave things as they are... simple changes that can screw it all. I don't like that.

I don't think there was 1 point i agree with i'm afraid!

Well, than next time actually read what i post. How can adding useful standard tactics be a bad thing? What's the point of the useless ones we have now?

If you disagree, explain that. Explain why you feel having bad standard tactics in the game is a good thing.

And for the difficulty levels, if it doesn't change anything to your game, since you can still play it with the current level of difficulty, it simply allows others to have it more easy for them, why are you against it?

Or the Youth squad jobs, why are you against it?

To come here and say "i don't agree with nothing of this" ain't far from spam to be honest. Not too different from those ranters who come here saying "This game sucks"...

There are simple arcadey games on the market if that's your bag.

There's no point in trying to sound like an ass, is it?

PS. One of my favorite games is Empire under the sun. So avoid judging people right away just because they feel your adorable game doesn't feel right to them...