Crap Attributes

Hi

Why do some many players have terrible attributes?

eg Henri Saiviet have terrible attibutes , but he is so good ??

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/matthewgoodfield/Picture15.png

?

Thanks

Hi

Why do some many players have terrible attributes?

eg Henri Saiviet have terrible attibutes , but he is so good ??

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/matthewgoodfield/Picture15.png

?

Thanks

How are they crap?

for his positions, they are great. Good Drib/Cross/Finishing/Pace/Accel

Can't really ask for too much more.!

Thanks for the reply

But I have Guilhreme and the attributes say he can finish really well , but he misses easy chances , and his composure is good as well

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/matthewgoodfield/Picture17.png

Henri Saivet attriutes are not as good , yet he is far better ???????????????????

Thanks

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mattg787:

Thanks for the reply

But I have Guilhreme and the attributes say he can finish really well , but he misses easy chances , and his composure is good as well

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh9/matthewgoodfield/Picture17.png

Henri Saivet attriutes are not as good , yet he is far better ???????????????????

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Poor concerntration could make him miss "easy" chances. Guilherme does look better, but personal traits, and PPM's could also have a massive effect on how the players perform.

Your brazilian striker stats are far better but he will need time to fet to know england. Give him some time and he will presumably be better.

If those two have developed in the same way as on my game (which it looks like from their attributes) then the difference in attributes is due to Saivet having a far superior weaker foot.

The ratings from 1 to 100 are:-

In the Profile Screen:-

0 to 37 = Strong Foot Only

38 to 76 = Strong Foot

77 to 100 = Either

In the Positions section:-

Very Weak: 1 to 22

Weak: 23 to 42

Reasonable: 43 to 57

Fairly Strong: 58 to 72

Strong: 73 to 87

Very Strong: 88 to 100

On my game Saivet's is 76 vs Guilherme's 19. So if they have developed the same on yours this might explain the better performance of Saivet. If you are just looking at chances and stats with no reference to which foot they take this chance with then that might explain the lack of finishing from Guilherme, particularly if the opposition are set to force him onto his weaker foot. The same applies to accuracy of crossing, passes, whether or not a player will dribble with the ball as well as sometimes causing a player to get caught out because they favour using their strong foot which can sometimes cause them to freeze up, attempt to change direction onto their favoured foot and have the ball nicked from their feet.

Of course it is difficult to tell from the bird's eye view which foot a player strikes the ball with (sometimes the commentary will say which foot a player shot with) but if you watch the chances you will see the kind of angle the player is taking shots from and can infer what foot they might have taken it with.

But I won't deny it requires a bit of a leap of faith to accept this as the reason for poor shots on target conversion as opposed to some hidden AI agenda

Top post isuckatfm.

(By the way, was going to mention this yesterday, but I forgot - very impressed with your helpful informative posts over the last few weeks. Its people like you that make this site worth visiting everyday. Give yourself a pat on the back )

he looks a decent player not that good.if he had they skills like that at that rating in reallife he would be a championship player or a spl player.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Top post isuckatfm.

(By the way, was going to mention this yesterday, but I forgot - very impressed with your helpful informative posts over the last few weeks. Its people like you that make this site worth visiting everyday. Give yourself a pat on the back ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks

But if I'm honest that probably has more to do with the amount of time I've had on my hands in the last few weeks

Odd after all these years playing fm i haven't given stronger foot more notice. Thanks for the heads up isuckatfm.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LAHoward:

Odd after all these years playing fm i haven't given stronger foot more notice. Thanks for the heads up isuckatfm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its AMAZING the little things you learn.

Theres a thread about "tips" on here somewhere, with a few tips in. I'll put everything I know in there later with Screenies to boot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LAHoward:

Odd after all these years playing fm i haven't given stronger foot more notice. Thanks for the heads up isuckatfm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope they really fix this for 09. with this bug it's absolutly impossibile to judge a player, becouse players with poor weak foot get stats added and those with strong weak foot get taken off. and not just those stats that deal with foot technique. mental and phisical also.

likes of maradona and messi, to name just a few, practicly didn't use their weak foot and they were so crap.

take a look at few matches of some players like cristiano who "use" thier weak foot. still most of the time they'll play with their stronger foot. yes they will score a few more goals with weak foot in career and will have that extra option going to weak foot side when dribbling and few more stuff but just take a look at some matches and you'll see what I'm talking about.

it's funny how now everyone believes that strong weak foot is sooo important. it is a nice extra advantage but even I can pass a ball quite decently with my left foot but mostly I'll do it with my right foot. allmost same goes for cristiano

don't take this personal isuckatfm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by Mitja:-

I hope they really fix this for 09. with this bug it's absolutly impossibile to judge a player, becouse players with poor weak foot get stats added and those with strong weak foot get taken off. and not just those stats that deal with foot technique. mental and phisical also.

likes of maradona and messi, to name just a few, practicly didn't use their weak foot and they were so crap.

take a look at few matches of some players like cristiano who "use" thier weak foot. still most of the time they'll play with their stronger foot. yes they will score a few more goals with weak foot in career and will have that extra option going to weak foot side when dribbling and few more stuff but just take a look at some matches and you'll see what I'm talking about.

it's funny how now everyone believes that strong weak foot is sooo important. it is a nice extra advantage but even I can pass a ball quite decently with my left foot but mostly I'll do it with my right foot. allmost same goes for cristiano

don't take this personal isuckatfm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll hunt you down and burn you at the stake for such heresy

On a serious note when I post like that it is about the game and not my opinions on real life. I am 100% with you on what you said about real life players use of their weaker foot and have posted along the same lines in the 'Current Ability and Attributes Research' thread in the Tactics forum where this importance of two feet in the match engine first came up.

So basically in real life I personally don't believe the weaker foot strength carries as much weight as it appears to do in the engine. But since one of the key designers feels it is important in real life and the match engine is designed to reflect this it's just something you have to accept.

PaulC posted the following in this thread:-

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/8212094683

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> originally posted by PaulC:-

Being two footed is a massive advantage, its as simple as that.

It makes complete sense, and is reflected in the match engine as in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm really glad you're with about this this game is called a football simulation after all. I feel

I remeber very well what paul said. I also remember he said they're going to introduce new researching tool for more accurate attributes in-put from db to the game, for next year's adition.

IMO smth went wrong this year so he had to find the way to defend his product. but don't tell anyone, that

...but paul sound quite serious, now I'm really concerned!!

there wouldn't be a problem for me if stats that deal with foot technique do get changed, for easier ME running. but it's riducoulus that a player with weak weak foot can run 2 points faster then researchers's opinoum and vice versa, I allways thought that someone with weak weak foot should run slower, becouse of his deficit, or maybe even jump on 1 foot

PaulC says:Being two footed is a massive advantage, its as simple as that. It makes complete sense, and is reflected in the match engine as in real life.

I happen to disagree with this statement. Although it can be an advantage, it's not such a big one to justify the drop in attributes as Paul believes. I'd say it gives you about 5% advantage and that's it. Have you seen Quaresma use the outside of his right foot? He really doesn't need to shoot with his left one. Let's lower his attributes too!

I'm almost certain that SI did this only because of C. Ronaldo. We FM'rs, should ask him to stop using one of his feet in order to be able to judge our players like we used to for 15 years now. He's not so good because of his use of both feet. He's good because...he's good.

Anyway, there is absolutely no reason to lower their attributes. How are we supposed to judge them? Remove all attributes if that's the way you're gonna deal with it from now on. Let us have blind faith in our scouts and sign whomever they recommend depending on their feet, shoe size, hairdo(can have a major effect on heading) etc.

"This guy is crap and I'm never going to buy him...but wait! His left foot is about 83% good so he must be great despite his crappy attributes! Here's 35m guys, nice doing business with you."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...but paul sound quite serious, now I'm really concerned!!

there wouldn't be a problem for me if stats that deal with foot technique do get changed, for easier ME running. but it's riducoulus that a player with weak weak foot can run 2 points faster then researchers's opinoum and vice versa, I allways thought that someone with weak weak foot should run slower, becouse of his deficit, or maybe even jump on 1 foot </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think part of the issue for you is it's effect on players assigned attributes in the editor versus what they are adjusted to when the game loads up.

To be honest I'm kind of Jekyll and Hyde with this. One part of me believes researched attributes should be exactly that, so if a mathematical concept in computer code that models player ability says a player can't be as researched then the issue is with the virtual model and not the researched values based on real life.

On the other hand I understand the need for this control on researched attributes to prevent 'overcooked' players.

Hopefully the changes to the research tool you mentioned will sort this issue out for FM 09.

My concern with it is the effect on regens. My understanding of it is that CA/PA defines the quality of the player and attributes follow from this. So if two players have the same CA and the same 'nominal' attributes if one of those has a stronger weak foot the other attributes will invariably be lower.

In my opinion given that the match engine deals with attributes this is a strange way to do it. Personally I would use a different approach that separates the weaker foot from CA and then it's potential to increase from it's initially generated value would be controlled by a player's versatility, professionalism and ambition thusly:-

1. versatility = his potential to improve his weaker foot

2. ambition = his desire to improve himself as a player and thus his weaker foot

3. professionalism = his effort in improving his weaker foot

In this case two players of identical CA and position could theoretically be identical in attributes irrespective of weaker foot. Then weaker foot would be incorporated by having a hit on the relevant visible attributes when used in calculations in the match engine. For example (a simple one just to illustrate the concept):-

A striker has a finishing attribute of 16.

His weaker foot is rated as 10/20.

If he shoots with his strong foot the finishing value of 16 is used in the calculation involving finishing.

If he shoots with his weak foot then 16*(10/20) = 8 is used in the calculation involving finishing.

That modification of the attribute is a bit extreme but it illustrates the concept.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by isuckatfm:

A striker has a finishing attribute of 16.

His weaker foot is rated as 10/20.

If he shoots with his strong foot the finishing value of 16 is used in the calculation involving finishing.

If he shoots with his weak foot then 16*(10/20) = 8 is used in the calculation involving finishing.

That modification of the attribute is a bit extreme but it illustrates the concept. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

this looks quite logical and I could agree it "reflects real life scenarios".

but my point is much more simple. exactly what bterz said. to be simple, so we don't have to calculate things or read 'Current Ability and Attributes Research' thread in the Tactics forum before we buy a player at the moment it's absolutly impossibile to judge a player.

the only question to me is; does this issue reflect real life. and the only answer is, no it defenetly doesn't.

about over-cooked players. in my opinoum all players are over-rated in terms how they react in match engine (strikers being able to score 70 goals...if you know what I meen). so the only solution is to improve match engine.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally postd by Mitja:-

but my point is much more simple. exactly what bterz said. to be simple, so we don't have to calculate things or read 'Current Ability and Attributes Research' thread in the Tactics forum before we buy a player at the moment it's absolutly impossibile to judge a player.

the only question to me is; does this issue reflect real life. and the only answer is, no it defenetly doesn't.

about over-cooked players. in my opinoum all players are over-rated in terms how they react in match engine (strikers being able to score 70 goals...if you know what I meen). so the only solution is to improve match engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair point

I think part of the issue with 70 goal strikers is that in my opinion FM is slightly backwards in that it is harder to defend than to attack whereas in real life the opposite is true (just my opinion ). But that's off topic really.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Top post isuckatfm.

(By the way, was going to mention this yesterday, but I forgot - very impressed with your helpful informative posts over the last few weeks. Its people like you that make this site worth visiting everyday. Give yourself a pat on the back ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gush and swoon.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> originally posted by Starr_Man5:-

Gush and swoon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jealous much? Want some of that Nepenthez love for yourself

**Tell me I'm a good boy too Mammy, tell me**

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LAHoward:

Odd after all these years playing fm i haven't given stronger foot more notice. Thanks for the heads up isuckatfm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not odd at all - it's been (over?)tweaked in the new patch. The foot was never so important in previous versions. Also, it wasn't mentioned by SI until people started noticing just last month.