Death of Football Manager?

I have been playing Champ Man since Champ Man 2 and unfortunately am left pondering the question is Football Manager dying. On face value this is a silly question due to sales rocketing. Unfortunately after reading the forums it appears that many casual gamers have been turned away from the in depth game it has become. Sadly it appears I too am one of these people. I can't keep winning streaks going and always end up on a winless streak I cannot stop. This seems to happen randomly as soon as I start doing well. I appreciate that this will be due to my tactics but no matter what I try nothing seems to work. I will be playing well but not scoring or misplacing passes and no matter what I change it does not improve. If I had not found these forums I would have given up a long time ago but now sadly I think that time may have arrived.

Please don't think that I am knocking this game without giving it some thought as I am loyal to the brand and am stupid enough to buy it agian next year. I know this as I have struggled for the past few editions of the game and still returned. I am worried the game is going too in depth and leaving behind casual gamers and replacing them with hardcore gamers.

No it is not dying.

It is getting more alive each year. Yes it is difficult for casual users to get into the game but that is what makes this game so much better than any other management game.

I do feel like its a hard game and I don't know also how to maintain winning runs and such but i too put it down to bad tactics and probably because I don't understand how the match engine works properly.

Death of football manager? no, thats not the right phrase, I do think its more complex than ever and this makes people upset as they once could pick it up go and win everything but now it takes a lot more thought.

It is getting more alive each year. Yes it is difficult for casual users to get into the game but that is what makes this game so much better than any other management game.

I don't suppose you have any tips for tactics do you? I seriousley want to get into the game but am having a mare getting to grips wih it?

No it isn't dying. I think that the depth is getting better and better, which is exactly what I want. It is still a pretty realistic game.

Try to imagine your circumstances on a real life club (like winless runs, or not able to put wins together) and then ask if it's unrealistic.

It really is like marmite - you either love it or you hate it, and at the moment, people are loving it

There may come a time where this kind of game becomes more unpopular, but at the moment people are immersing themselves in gaming, and this is an ideal game for that

It is getting more alive each year. Yes it is difficult for casual users to get into the game but that is what makes this game so much better than any other management game.

YES!!!

Give that man an award!

No it isn't dying. I think that the depth is getting better and better, which is exactly what I want. It is still a pretty realistic game.

Try to imagine your circumstances on a real life club (like winless runs, or not able to put wins together) and then ask if it's unrealistic.

I appreciate the response but have never really seen a team in real life beat top teams back to back then not be able to buy a win verses lower teams. E.g as Birmingham I have beaten Reading and Wolves and then lose against Doncaster, Palace and Forest. When you follow this up with a draw at home to Derby I struggle to see how this can happen.

I understand it will be my tactics but honestly beleive that the depth of the game is making it too hard for people like me to play and beleive me I have put the hours in!

YES!!!

Give that man an award!

Why? Did I do something good?

Tactics, well all I can do is reccomend the TT&F. You are a bluenose so I would love to do more. The TT&F document is the best way for you to get to grips with the sliders.

Why? Did I do something good?

Tactics, well all I can do is reccomend the TT&F. You are a bluenose so I would love to do more. The TT&F document is the best way for you to get to grips with the sliders.

Cheers mate and no problem. I have read them but will try again. I know it is me and my tactics but as mentioned am having a mare and have been since release day.

Keep Right On

Cheers mate and no problem. I have read them but will try again. I know it is me and my tactics but as mentioned am having a mare and have been since release day.

Keep Right On

You're not the only one. I have struggled and have read through the document several times but am still useless. Good luck with it though mate.

Keep Right On, you going tomorrow?

You're not the only one. I have struggled and have read through the document several times but am still useless. Good luck with it though mate.

Keep Right On, you going tomorrow?

Nah I am staging a protest v's the board and have not been this season. Regretting it slightly now though as we have looked really good last few games from what I have seen on TV.

Nah I am staging a protest v's the board and have not been this season. Regretting it slightly now though as we have looked really good last few games from what I have seen on TV.

Get yourself down there tomorrow. To be honest, I have regretted the season ticket in a way because of the cost etc but over the last three games we have looked decent.

Zulu, i suggest for starters, you download a tactic and there a plenty over in the Tactics Forum that come highly recommended, and also a coaching schedule and take over a good team that has a high chance of success e.g big four. Then you'll get a bit of success which most agree is what makes the game fun From there you can read over the forums and get a handle on the game and in doing so slowly improve like myself

I have played since 06 and only this year have i managed to create a moderately successful tactic!

Why? Did I do something good?

You just said my exact thoughts on the entire thing. I'm not having great success either but I appreciate the challenge.

It's just a pity the feeble minded don't.

I do feel like its a hard game and I don't know also how to maintain winning runs and such but i too put it down to bad tactics and probably because I don't understand how the match engine works properly.

Death of football manager? no, thats not the right phrase, I do think its more complex than ever and this makes people upset as they once could pick it up go and win everything but now it takes a lot more thought.

I don't think fm is dying, i agree that if anything, it's becoming more alive. The new features which have been added are great and the new 3d match graphical representation, albeit which is quite crude sometimes, adds a reinvigorated interest to the game for me (if i wanted top graphics, i'd buy Fifa) However, the only issue which remains for me, as quoted by cityull above, is the fact that the ME needs to be figured out properly.

In my own personal experiences on this years release, i feel that in order to get some kind of success, you HAVE to learn how the ME works. This to me seems silly as surely some knowledge of real life football and tactics should suffice.....but alas, this is not the case. It seems that everything i once knew about football and tactics doesn't seem to work in this game, you have to learn how the ME works and interpret that into 'FM tactics'. This, for me, was proven in the release of the last patch. My tactics worked great on 9.2.0 but as soon as i updated to 9.3.0, my once fruitful tactic was rendered obsolete. Surely football can't change that much? The only thing that must have changed is the ME.

For me, for fm to continue, it needs to incorporate some kind of realism in tactics as i think now, and for quite some time now, it's all been about how to exploit the ME to get success.

Other than that, i think fm is getting better. At first i didn't get on with 09, but after playing FM and watching the ME, i've started to enjoy it again.

You just said my exact thoughts on the entire thing. I'm not having great success either but I appreciate the challenge.

It's just a pity the feeble minded don't.

It is a little simplistic to simply dismiss people as feeble-minded if they are finding the game too challenging.

I think the great thing about prior versions was that you could focus on team building and man management with minimal attention to the tactics. That keeps the game accessable for a wide variety of players - those who want to really go in-depth with tactics can, and those who want to skim over them can also do that.

If some are being turned away from the game because of this, then perhaps it is worthwhile catering for them, such as with a greater role for the assistant in tactics.

If some are being turned away from the game because of this, then perhaps it is worthwhile catering for them, such as with a greater role for the assistant in tactics.

I think this is probably the best solution to keep every fm player happy. From the comments i see on the forums it seems a lot of people (myself included at one stage) are getting frustrated with the 'tactics side' of the game. I can understand people wanting the very closest to realism yet i can also understand people's desire to just pick up and play. Maybe SI should cater for both in future fm installments so as to not alienate a certain proportion of fm gamers? It would be a shame to lose any fm'ers.

I think this is probably the best solution to keep every fm player happy. From the comments i see on the forums it seems a lot of people (myself included at one stage) are getting frustrated with the 'tactics side' of the game. I can understand people wanting the very closest to realism yet i can also understand people's desire to just pick up and play. Maybe SI should cater for both in future fm installments so as to not alienate a certain proportion of fm gamers? It would be a shame to lose any fm'ers.

I agree and if this happened then FM would not potentially lose the casual gamer who in my opinion helped put the game where it is today. I also agree with your previous comments regarding tactics being about exploiting ME rather than reallife knowledge. This has been what is getting to me as I know my tatics are at fault but am frustrated that this is not due to lack of knowledge but more to lack of being able to read ME. To be honest I'm not the best at computer games anyway so was always likely to struggle on this score!

Zulu, i suggest for starters, you download a tactic and there a plenty over in the Tactics Forum that come highly recommended, and also a coaching schedule and take over a good team that has a high chance of success e.g big four. Then you'll get a bit of success which most agree is what makes the game fun From there you can read over the forums and get a handle on the game and in doing so slowly improve like myself

I have played since 06 and only this year have i managed to create a moderately successful tactic!

Cheers pal I was trying to avoid this but now realise it is the only way forward for a ludite like me!

You just said my exact thoughts on the entire thing. I'm not having great success either but I appreciate the challenge.

It's just a pity the feeble minded don't.

Feeble minded because I don't understand a computer game?!

I was trying to make a point that your man on the street is being driven away from the game due to the complexity of it. I have acknowledged that sales show the game to continues to thrive but my point is that the casual gamer who heped make the game what it is today is really struggling.

It's a small but vocal minority that bang on about how terrible the game is and how hard it is and how it's no fun any more. Wouldn't worry about it.

It's a small but vocal minority that bang on about how terrible the game is and how hard it is and how it's no fun any more. Wouldn't worry about it.

I would not same the game is terrible in fact I really enjoy it. I do however think it is overly difficult and this is what is frustrating me. You say it is a small minority but I fear you are wrong.

The game is not dying but I will never buy another version - I'm sure many more feel as I do

I appreciate the response but have never really seen a team in real life beat top teams back to back then not be able to buy a win verses lower teams. E.g as Birmingham I have beaten Reading and Wolves and then lose against Doncaster, Palace and Forest. When you follow this up with a draw at home to Derby I struggle to see how this can happen.

I understand it will be my tactics but honestly beleive that the depth of the game is making it too hard for people like me to play and beleive me I have put the hours in!

You mean how Liverpool can beat Real Madrid 1-0, and then 3 days later lose against Middlesbrough?

It is getting more alive each year. Yes it is difficult for casual users to get into the game but that is what makes this game so much better than any other management game.

I agree. The Super Mario games only got really good when they introduced controllers with four joysticks, fourty variable buttons and didn't give more then a general explanation about what does what. Screw the noobs! If you're not willing to put in two hours searching for websites, reading 40 pages of tactical theorems and then stumbling in the dark till you win, you don't deserve to play computer games.

I would not same the game is terrible in fact I really enjoy it. I do however think it is overly difficult and this is what is frustrating me. You say it is a small minority but I fear you are wrong.

It's a small minority that bang on about it.

I agree it's more difficult than previous versions, but unlike previous versions I'm not bored of this one yet. Usually, i'm setting myself daft challenges by now, and already itching for the next version. I think the real test will be if FM10 does well in terms of sales or if it will dip. If not, I'd say that "minority" is correct.

It's a small minority that bang on about it.

I agree it's more difficult than previous versions, but unlike previous versions I'm not bored of this one yet. Usually, i'm setting myself daft challenges by now, and already itching for the next version. I think the real test will be if FM10 does well in terms of sales or if it will dip. If not, I'd say that "minority" is correct.

I tottaly agree...this version is harder but thats good i like it that way..if the game was too easy then it would be silly

Ive been playing champ man/football manager for 100yrs now is starting to get yawn yawn sorry but it is dont see why people start threads with that as opening sentence as much as si appreciate your contribution your not guna get a hat medal or t-shirt

Right as for the game yes can be frustrating etc but nothing comes close to it as a manager sim go play lma if it still about or fifa manager then come back and see if your opinion is the same:thup:

It's a myth that you need to download tactics or read bloody theorums to win.

Seriously, I have Preston from the Championship to the Champions League over the course of about 5 seasons with a slightly tweaked 4-4-2 and intelligent signings.

For me it'snot the death of FM, but the death of the way I used to play. What I mean is, I really enjoy the one hour or so available to me each day, good way to relax and have fun, BUT:

when I tried to remember the old times of llm, it was a complete disastrer! Tried 2 times in BSS/N and once in BSP, but the results were disheartening at least. I understood that you have to spend a lot more time than in previous versions (FM2007 the last) to have some success.

So I chose a high rep league2 team (that's the lowest I dare to try), and created a save with a challenge/success balance that suits me (and the time I can spend playing) fine and really enjoy. Imo, that's the solution to the casual gamer's problem the OP mentioned. Just don't try llm, you'll probably regret it!

I really don't think 09 is harder at all. imo 08 was much harder in getting the tactics right. even 07 was probably harder to find the right tactics. so far in 09 I only need to set out a general instruction without too many tweaking in the individual instructions and the team has been performing reasonably well (finishing just about where the media predicted).

If you are struggle with the game, try to make the tactics simpler to start with. It's a myth that you need to tweak things to death in order to win a game

I don't think 09 was harder - just didn't like it - that's why I went back to 08 and that is where I'll be staying

FM isn't dying, it is just growing up, which is necessary.

I really couldn't give a toss about the casual gamer ... once the casual gamer starts playing the game if they like it that much they will persist with the game and turn into the hardcore user to get the best out of it.

It's only rational that as the game becomes more complex over the years it will become harder for the casual/new gamer to play. It is then for the causal/new user to decide if they will continue to play or not.

Hardcore users who wan't the game to be as complex as possible shouldn't be punished because a minority of causal gamers find the game too hard.

I really couldn't give a toss about the casual gamer ... once the casual gamer starts playing the game if they like it that much they will persist with the game and turn into the hardcore user to get the best out of it.

It's only rational that as the game becomes more complex over the years it will become harder for the casual/new gamer to play. It is then for the causal/new user to decide if they will continue to play or not.

Hardcore users who wan't the game to be as complex as possible shouldn't be punished because a minority of causal gamers find the game too hard.

I disagree.

Why should the casual users who don't want to spend hours learning how to lay the game be punished, just because the hardcore minority want even more complexity?

I disagree.

Why should the casual users who don't want to spend hours learning how to lay the game be punished, just because the hardcore minority want even more complexity?

Don't think it is the hardcore minority. There are quite a few hardcore ones here, and more that don't go on these forums. To be honest, if I was a casual player, I wouldn't buy football management games, as they need time and care to get the best out of it. It is like a dog, you can't just take it for walks every so often and give it the occasional belly rub, you need to show care for it, and give it what it wants. Although with FM you can get a replacement every year aka a new version of the game.

The game sells millions. I'm as hardcore a player as many (Current game at 2018), but I reckon the majority are just casual gamers who want to play for a few hours every other night. I don't think the game is too complex right now- but to abandon casual players like the previous poster suggests is commercial suicide.

The game sells millions. I'm as hardcore a player as many (Current game at 2018), but I reckon the majority are just casual gamers who want to play for a few hours every other night. I don't think the game is too complex right now- but to abandon casual players like the previous poster suggests is commercial suicide.

I personally would not abandon casual gamers, but I would not want them to get the game too simple just because of their needs, adding stuff like difficulty levels would be pointless, or making 1 tactic rule the world would make the game become too boring, and possibly I, and others, would not buy the game, as it would be too simple.

Its the same as every other FM/CM you go a top team and after 4 seasons, you win everything every year.

A bit easy maybe, deffo not too hard.

I personally would not abandon casual gamers, but I would not want them to get the game too simple just because of their needs, adding stuff like difficulty levels would be pointless, or making 1 tactic rule the world would make the game become too boring, and possibly I, and others, would not buy the game, as it would be too simple.

Of course not. But nobody suggested that. I was just arguing with:

I really couldn't give a toss about the casual gamer ... once the casual gamer starts playing the game if they like it that much they will persist with the game and turn into the hardcore user to get the best out of it.

It's only rational that as the game becomes more complex over the years it will become harder for the casual/new gamer to play. It is then for the causal/new user to decide if they will continue to play or not.

One answer, you want easy management gaming, go to Championship Manager, appreciate what your saying, but the reason its getting harder and more depth, they try to make it as realistic as possible, hence the name "Football....Manager"

...But they will, if you push them too far.

And while that may make YOU happy, it will lose SI a great deal of sales and cash.

Its the same as every other FM/CM you go a top team and after 4 seasons, you win everything every year.

A bit easy maybe, deffo not too hard.

And that is why I have never started a game outside of the conference north/south.

And that's why I wouldn't start a game below league 2, so I think the game can cover all tastes, those of the hardcore funs and those of the casual gamers. Unless you expect everyone to have 5 hours or more to focus on the game. Most gamers don't.

I really couldn't give a toss about the casual gamer ... once the casual gamer starts playing the game if they like it that much they will persist with the game and turn into the hardcore user to get the best out of it.

It's only rational that as the game becomes more complex over the years it will become harder for the casual/new gamer to play. It is then for the causal/new user to decide if they will continue to play or not.

Hardcore users who wan't the game to be as complex as possible shouldn't be punished because a minority of causal gamers find the game too hard.

I'm in 3036 in one FM07 game. I've barely touched tactics in that time. I wouldn't regard myself as a casual FM player, but if I'm put in a situation where I have to spend a fair bit of time on tactics to succeed in FM, I just won't bother with the series.

If the game is getting so complex to the point that it is driving away what you term casual players, then I think you will start to give a toss when the financial viability of the series is brought into question.

Sports management games are something of a niche genre as it is. There are other competitors in the market for this particular sport. If there is something in FM which is driving people away from a game which is already seen as the most complex, then there could be very real consequences for all players.

3036!?!?!?

I appreciate the response but have never really seen a team in real life beat top teams back to back then not be able to buy a win verses lower teams. E.g as Birmingham I have beaten Reading and Wolves and then lose against Doncaster, Palace and Forest. When you follow this up with a draw at home to Derby I struggle to see how this can happen.

I understand it will be my tactics but honestly beleive that the depth of the game is making it too hard for people like me to play and beleive me I have put the hours in!

Liverpool.

As long as FML is self financing this series wont die.

3036!?!?!?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=36273