ok, so whether you get warned for complaining is entirely random.

whats the point of it then?

whats the point of it then?

helps build relationships with your players, affecting their morale according to whether they think you were right to do it, or didnt stick up for them, or whatever...

Rinso, lets be honest here. This is a pretty useless feature. Apart from an odd change in morale once in a blue moon from this feature, it does nothing.

I don't think it's entirely random at all.

lol fair pint i spose, it doesnt really do much...

either that of the match screen displays it wrong

could be a fair point too....

I don't think that it's random - the AI knows if the ref was right and you were wrong or vice versa.

The problem is, we have no way of knowing from the 2D engine or commentary whether we're justified in complaining or not. Furthermore, there is next to no advantage in complaining and ever disincentive to do so.

Thus, although you selected the wrong term, I know what you meran and I'm in agreement with you. SI need to make the option more effective.

I like this option but only because I take the Fergie and Wenger stance and always back up my players but deal with them behind closed doors (oo-er). It really should have more effect though.

We should be able to tell if the decision was right or wrong though. The easy way round it is to have a definate answer in the commentary/match report, offsides could be made more interactive with someone proposing a 2 coloured lines option on the replays to show if he was or wasn't offside. I think that would be a nice feature too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

I don't think it's entirely random at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may not be, but when you complain for say an offside that from the match replay never was and still get fined etc then it does prove to be a bit of a lottery as to the effects of the feature.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

I don't think it's entirely random at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may not be, but when you complain for say an offside that from the match replay never was and still get fined etc then it does prove to be a bit of a lottery as to the effects of the feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a decade old career game. Everytime there's a controversy that I'm asked to make a comment on, I check the match report. I have never been fined all these game years. It's not random at all.

I've learned never to bother looking at the 2d screen when trying to detemine fouls/offsides/whatever.

I'd like to know the logic behind why you are in trouble for complaining if it turns out you're wrong, but alls fine in the world if it turns out you're right.

Either complaining about the officials to the press is deemed wrong by the footballing powers, or it is tollerated. Especially when you choose the less extreme option when criticising officials rather than the blow-your-top option.

This is one of many features that make it more like a superficial kids game than a proper simulation. Either do it properly or bin it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nax:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

I don't think it's entirely random at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may not be, but when you complain for say an offside that from the match replay never was and still get fined etc then it does prove to be a bit of a lottery as to the effects of the feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a decade old career game. Everytime there's a controversy that I'm asked to make a comment on, I check the match report. I have never been fined all these game years. It's not random at all.

I've learned never to bother looking at the 2d screen when trying to detemine fouls/offsides/whatever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. People are just lazy.

What I dislike about this feature is that there is no "date of expiry". You can complain three times over twenty seasons and you'll still get a touchline ban.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by endtime:

What I dislike about this feature is that there is no "date of expiry". You can complain three times over twenty seasons and you'll still get a touchline ban. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that right?

I didn't realise it was a 3 strikes and you're out rule .

I think it's four actually; first complaint - warning, second - further warning, third - fine, fourth - ban.

It is not entirely random, if it is clearly offside and I complain the fa remain silent. That doesn't mean the feature can be attacked as it is too predictable what the consequences are, happens too often and can't be judged in a lot of cases. That makes that features more irritating than useful. In this state it should be removed or, as that won't happen, tweaked down a lot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nax:

I have a decade old career game. Everytime there's a controversy that I'm asked to make a comment on, I check the match report. I have never been fined all these game years. It's not random at all.

I've learned never to bother looking at the 2d screen when trying to detemine fouls/offsides/whatever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno how this worked for you because I always checked the match report in my first few games and still got fined.

"Do (team) have a right to feel aggrieved" isn't particularly definate.

Also i've been in the situation where I have checked the match report re: a red card and have fined the player because it says the pushed the victim, he accepts the fine, I then I lamabast the ref and the FA stay silent over my criticism. It would seem from the FA stance that the ref got it wrong but if that's the case why did the player accept his fine?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by endtime:

I think it's four actually; first complaint - warning, second - further warning, third - fine, fourth - ban. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

endtime.

Do you know this to be true?

Do you think this to be true?

Do you think you know this to be true ?

Seriously, if you tell me 100% it's true I will believe you(ish) .

I think I'm right I'm positive that the game doesn't "forget" that you complained ten years ago, so the only thing I'm not sure of is how many complaints it actually takes to land a touchline ban.

If the opening poster is saying it's random, I assume he's done some extensive testing and has stats to back up his statement?

endtime. I usually keep my mouth shut unless it's blatant. I will attempt to complain more to test your theory .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Super Bladesman:

If the opening poster is saying it's random, I assume he's done some extensive testing and has stats to back up his statement? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be ridiculous.

If the commentary says "It looked offside to me!" then I complain. Likewise, if it was blatantly in my favour, I say the opponent's are unlucky but it happens, and most times my player praises my courage and honesty.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nax:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

I don't think it's entirely random at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may not be, but when you complain for say an offside that from the match replay never was and still get fined etc then it does prove to be a bit of a lottery as to the effects of the feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a decade old career game. Everytime there's a controversy that I'm asked to make a comment on, I check the match report. I have never been fined all these game years. It's not random at all.

I've learned never to bother looking at the 2d screen when trying to detemine fouls/offsides/whatever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well obviously you cannot tell whether a foul is a foul from the 2D.

But offsides are a totally different matter- its pretty much black and white in this area, and the game is getting it wrong where players are obviously on or off, and it is a lottery as to whether the engine gets it right as regards your complaints.

Hopefully this will be fixed- as offsides in FM08 in general are woeful, even if you take into consideration asst refs making mistakes.

I like the fact that Ass Refs make mistakes, (as they do in reality), but I have never complained, (when I know it to be a poor decision), and not been backed by the FA.

I must say that I don't often complain though, so maybe I just haven't come across this yet.

Offsides aren't that random - because you can actually see if they were/were not offside.

But i often don't bother comenting on fouls, simply because no matter how many times you look at the incident you still haven't got a clue.

Something that could be sorted by your assman saying "it was a foul" or "it wasn't" just to let you know how to proceed.

Also, relating to the "4 strikes" idea above, i went through a whole season giving the "sounds like sour grapes" response, then with my very first complaint towards the FA, i was given a touch line ban - do the FA hold all negative comments against you?

Also, relating to real life - look at david moyes comments regarding the idiot that is mark clattenberg (sp). Moyes was right, it could not be argued any other way, yet the FA still charged him - something that FM fails to appreciate, is that criticism of refs, even if justified, is not accepted in real life.

Oh yeah, and another thing: I wish there was a corellation between the complaints and the reaction from the FA. As it is now, the FA "remain silent" when you complain about having a player sent off, indicating the referee's decision was incorrect, but the next day reject you appeal, saying that the red card was valid.

Yeah, I do agree with that. I don't appeal any more even though I have heard that someobody was once succesfull .