9.3.0 has ruined an already frustrating game for me.

That’s right; patch 9.3.0 has made FM09 unplayable for me. Before you dismiss this as just another rant please consider my post history. I’ve always been constructive in any criticism I’ve had for the game, and have always been a supporter on the forums of all FM games up to this point. On top of that I feel that in years gone by I’ve helped many people on here who’ve had problems or issues with the game. But since FM09 was released it’s caused me nothing but frustration, and I’ll explain why below.

Firstly, let me set the scene. I was disappointed from the off that the company had decided to go down the DRM route. At the time I predicted that it would punish normal, law abiding customers, and I was right. More on that later. When I finally did get my game activated the first iteration of ’09 was horrible for me. My main issue was the fact that the tactical side of the game, something I’d always been pretty proficient at, had become suddenly foreign to me. The main problem being that my strikers just would not play well no matter what I did. For the first time in many a year I was forced to try downloading a tactic (and yes I did read wwfans guide, I first read it in ’06 and have kept up to date with it ever since), but when this didn’t get my team playing anything like I would have hoped I abandoned FM09 and went back to the excellent FM08.

A while later patch 9.2.0 was released and I decided to give the game another go, my intention being to start again from scratch with tactics and creating a new tactic set for my Sunderland team. This time I was happier, my strikers were actually managing to get reasonable ratings and even scoring some goals. My tactic set, based on my knowledge gained over the years from the tactics forum, was working reasonably well and more importantly doing what I wanted it to do; i.e. playing through my target man, Jones. In my first season I finished in 14th place. And in my second I consolidated in 10th. This was realistic progress and despite the AMC issue and the other 9.2.0 bugs I was pleased with the way it was going. My 4 versions of the same tactic were working fine, my home and away tactics were decent and I’d come up with a very good defensive tactic to close out games and frustrate tough opposition, as well as a very attacking tactic to try and get back into games. In the last two seasons, and going into the third, I’d managed to put together a very strong squad, so this particular save was looking promising.

At the start of my 3rd season the 9.3.0 patch was released. However, I’d also moved house and was therefore waiting for my internet to get back up and running. Because I’d activated through Steam I could not update my game without the internet plugged directly into my PC, again I was being punished for having to activate through Steam. Of course I could have uninstalled the game, unactivated the license, re-installed the game and then re-activated through Uiloc before downloading the patch at work and transferring it via usb to my home PC. But quite frankly why should I? I’d rather wait. In that time my 3rd season started well and my wonderkid striker was banging in the goals.

At the weekend I finally got my internet back and, having heard good things about 9.3.0, I decided to update my game. This is possibly the biggest gaming mistake I’ve ever made. My previously decent tactic set suddenly did not work, and more frustratingly there seemed to be no reason for this, none that my ass man could identify anyway. For me it was like playing the horrible 9.1.0 again and my strikers were again completely useless. I lost the first 6 games in a row after applying the patch, scoring only 1 goal (which came from a midfielder). So I spent last night tweaking my tactic set, using the knowledge gained from years spent on these forums, but to no avail. I lost every game and my team slipped from 5th to 14th pretty rapidly. My only other option then was to try downloading some tactics, but I soon turned the game off in frustration.

And yes, of course I’m unhappy because I can’t win. That’s the point of a game, if you can find no way to ‘beat’ it then you become pretty frustrated pretty quickly. My main issue is that my previously sound tactics (balanced tactics based on knowledge gained here) suddenly fell apart for no apparent reason. There was absolutely no way to recognise why they suddenly stopped working, and for me no way to recognise what I needed to do to fix the problem. Strikers are now pointless again and for me the game’s terrible.

This frustration is compounded by the fact that this whole save is now ruined. Due to the stupid activation method it is now too difficult for me to simply revert to 9.2.0. I wouldn’t even know where to start doing this using Steam, and again why should I go through all that hassle to revert back to an older patch when I’m a legally paying customer?

Suffice to say I’m bitterly disappointed with this year’s release, and if anyone knows where I can get an ’09 update for FM08 from then please let me know.

Whilst i have had no problems myself i see that this year 70 percent of the online community facing problems and no matter the other 30 percent saying that "it isnt technical the game is good it might be your tactics or training" I feel that th people that have no probs need to realise that the game still needs a whole lot of work and sometimes it seems that Si have been lazy/disorganized or badly advised in this game, DRM is a joke i dont care about piracy as the users can play how many times they want but i pay 30 pounds worth (so happy i borrowed it off a friend) and i can only install it and activate it 5 times on separate comps? Its more like paying 30 pounds for a rental really. And then i have to download steam(BOLLOCKS company) wasting more space on my computer!

I feel for you mate i really do even though i am enjoying 9.3.0 but i'm one of the lucky ones. I would have thought that SI would have handled the amount of people with problems in a way they showed that they cared for them though.

I agree with everything in that post, pretty much. I also think it's an example to all the ranters of how to go about properly criticising the game.

With 9.3.0, the match engine looks great, and in some ways is a massive improvement. But, tactically, it's a horror story.

To be honest the release of FM09 was probably the worst high profile game release in recent memory.

The DRM issue to me just didn't appear to be in any way, shape, or form thought out well enough. Piracy wins when your loyal paying customers cannot activate their game and pay money for a game that at times was completely unplayable.

There are positives with the game but I do feel that ever since Sega jumped on board the commercialisation of the game has taken paramount over the dedicated FM fan.

Until a rival can get somewhere near SI's level with a football management game SI will probably be ok but as soon as a firm starts to compete effectively in this type of game genre then I'm afraid the days do look numbered.

The thousands of technical issues that many thousands of gamers have had with this game has also been really really poor. To expect people to activate their game, then search through the forums for workarounds, then search again for more workarounds, is really poor customer service when you think that the customer has paid for a game that should at least work based on the minimum specifications advertised.

I've said from day one that ever since FML was launched that FM08,09, etc would take a backseat and become the poorer cousin of the game. I know there are 2 seperate teams, etc,etc dealing with the individual games but I can't help feeling that this has had some form of an impact on the game.

Lets hope that SI learn from their mistakes and improve the game or at least consolidate the beauty of this series. When you think that 2 brothers in their bedroom (I think I'm right in saying that) thought up this game its truly remarkable the success it has had but you do wonder what them founder members now think of the Sega angle and the comercialisatin of their brand (I guess they are ok as they must have given permission but nevertheless do you remember the good old days when the game came first!!).

I'm not sure why tactically 9.3.0 is a horror story. I think everyone has a different experience

I play with a large database and in game terms play quite slow. I started a new game from 9.2.0 and then added 9.3.0 on top. I'm halfway through my 4 th season as Portsmouth. I used to play 4-4-2 but due to players I bought / could get I now play 4-1-2-2-1. I play more attacking at home and less away and in general play the same at the start and change mid-game as I feel is needed, it doesn't always pay off.

My current formation scores less goals but I concede far less, I think just 9 goals in almost 19 matches. With 9.3.0 I see far less stupid defensive positioning/ covering by my defenders.

I don't wish in anyway to knock the OP but just thjought I'd balance one experience with another. The one piece of advice I'd give is tactic patience and don't over complicate things in terms of tweaking the tactics too much during a game too often.

Steam and DRM is a seperate issue from the game, I see the latest TW has similar Steam issuesto what many of us FM09 folk also had, as has others

Currently I am 1st 4 points ahead of Arsenal though they have a game in hand. I have qualified from the Champions league (my first time in the champions league) top of the group undefeated, but was n=knocked out of the League cup in the 4th round. I have not amended the data base in anyway. When I play games I study opposition form and players and look for weaknesses that I could exploit

I personally think FM09 the best ever release, the 3d praphics make it much more entertaining to watch.

Sure there are some poor bits e.g. repetive media but you can use this to your advantage to increase player morale

Well, DRM seems to have achieved what it set out to do. An utter debacle in terms of customer service, but I expect they'll have learned from this.

As for tactics, this happens with every single patch, and has done since gawd knows when. Just means a little bit of tweaking. Fact is you can't win every game.

Following the uproar after 9.1.0 and 9.2.0, the dissenting voices have been more of a grumble over 9.3.0, so maybe you just need to take a breath and look at your tactics again. I found one major issue with 9.2.0 was that to get results you had to get stuck into the minutae of tactics, issuing every single player with specific instructions. With 9.3.0 I am using very slightly tweaked defaults and doing pretty well.

Don't give up on it yet, fella. Took some getting used to but I'm honestly enjoying it way more than any other version. Shame it's so slow.

I really hated 9.3.0 at 1st because of the sheer ammount of injuries i got but i have to admit and this almost hurts me to say it but it actual helped in terms of squad rotation (alot of less unhappy players not getting 1st team football) and eventualy as the season progressed i hired a couple more fitmess coaches and the injuries did subside towords the middle-end of the season.

I am also happy with it due to the fact of going through 8 seasons scoring like 2-3 direct freekicks (as man utd) to now in the 1st season since 9.3.0 i have hit double that in 1 season.

I totaly understand that people have had their saves ruined and are upset i was too but it smoothed out for me and actual in the end i am very pleased with 9.3.0 guess if people an bare the rough ride they might get lucky like me because i truely feel that so many improvment were made through the new patch.

I agree about the stupid anti piracy thing just about money not about customers happyness.

For the tactics side it took me around 3-4 seasons to set my team up right with tactics getting the right balance in the team in regards to youth and exp. Not forgetting the invincable force that was arsenal, because of arsenal i think i developed to be a better manager i had to think about youth and because i knew arsenal were gonna be dominent it gave me time to focus long term and it paid off big time.

I really hate the people who flame others like you for saying something has changed for the worse since the new patch because the facts and sheer number of people who reported that since 9.3.0 patch their game has become unplayable and a step back from 9.2.0 and i agree although my game is fine now for some reason that doesn't mean others have had the same luck, why should we not be allowed to voice our concern or disapointment when we are paying customers/

I hope your game gets better if not maybe pray for a 9.4.0 although rumours have it SI are just gonna use this game as basicly as a tester for FM10 so we have paid for the luxary of testing out there game so they can make FM10 better (hopefully) so we can then pay for that.

I love randomly plucked out the air statistics like Shalashaska.

Chopper, i seen your posts abuot before and know your experience. Sorry to hear you having all these problems. I skipped the second patch and came back on the final patch which i actually enjoying but that said im not playing lower leagues currently.

Instead of it being a tactical issue, have you looked at if it is a player issue with your tactic? You probably have but with such large changes to the match engine the way players used to perform in a position radically changed. I had to slightly tweak my tactics for this reason and I agree strikers are no longer as prolific as previously. They used to be my top scorers but currently my wingers seem to be taking over that role, though that may be caused by recent tweaks in set piece takers and positions etc.

I hate DRM, and to be honest companies should actually realise that DRM protection is easy cracked still. It may take a day or two longer for the pirates to crack it, but it gives a lifetime of pain to the legitimate buyers of software. I know i dread reinstalling the game (especially trying to remember if they 0's or O's heh.) and needing to log on my internet to get it set up. And with all the protection i have running i need to open up everything in order to do so which is plan annoying

I'm not sure why tactically 9.3.0 is a horror story. I think everyone has a different experience

I play with a large database and in game terms play quite slow. I started a new game from 9.2.0 and then added 9.3.0 on top. I'm halfway through my 4 th season as Portsmouth. I used to play 4-4-2 but due to players I bought / could get I now play 4-1-2-2-1. I play more attacking at home and less away and in general play the same at the start and change mid-game as I feel is needed, it doesn't always pay off.

My current formation scores less goals but I concede far less, I think just 9 goals in almost 19 matches. With 9.3.0 I see far less stupid defensive positioning/ covering by my defenders.

I don't wish in anyway to knock the OP but just thjought I'd balance one experience with another. The one piece of advice I'd give is tactic patience and don't over complicate things in terms of tweaking the tactics too much during a game too often.

Steam and DRM is a seperate issue from the game, I see the latest TW has similar Steam issuesto what many of us FM09 folk also had, as has others

Currently I am 1st 4 points ahead of Arsenal though they have a game in hand. I have qualified from the Champions league (my first time in the champions league) top of the group undefeated, but was n=knocked out of the League cup in the 4th round. I have not amended the data base in anyway. When I play games I study opposition form and players and look for weaknesses that I could exploit

I personally think FM09 the best ever release, the 3d praphics make it much more entertaining to watch.

Sure there are some poor bits e.g. repetive media but you can use this to your advantage to increase player morale

I can understand that for everyone it's been different, I know there are people who are enjoying 9.3.0.

The thing for me is that I have had patience, I have never been reactionist. I've tried improving the tactics that I had working in 9.2.0 but to no avail, I've tried creating a new tactic, but to no avail. My tactics are always simple balanced tactics and I don't actually tweak during a game, I just switch between my tactics as and when I feel it's needed during a game.

My biggest problem is that since 9.3.0 I feel like I'm playing blind. I have no idea whatsoever why my tactics no longer work, and no indication of what I should be trying to improve them. I feel like I'm having to re-invent the wheel because nothing from either any previous FM or even the last patch seems to work in 9.3.0. And I don't know what's going on with my strikers, but in one patch they've gone from being excellent to being worse than terrible.

This obviously leads me to frustration, and that fact that I can't easitly revert back to 9.2.0 only increases this frustration.

As for tactics, this happens with every single patch, and has done since gawd knows when. Just means a little bit of tweaking. Fact is you can't win every game.

This is true, but then again I'm used to it and normally the difference is not as massive as it seems to have been this time, particularly in terms of strikers. Normally a little trial end error can get your tactics working again after a patch. But, for me at least, the tactics were so difficult to get right in the first place for some reason that now I simply can't get anything working again.

I'm not expecting to overachieve, or for it to be instant. I was happy with a 14th place and a 10th place finish with Sunderland. But to lose 12 games in a row after the patch, and for neither of my strikers to score a single goal in that time, is simply mind boggling.

Following the uproar after 9.1.0 and 9.2.0, the dissenting voices have been more of a grumble over 9.3.0, so maybe you just need to take a breath and look at your tactics again. I found one major issue with 9.2.0 was that to get results you had to get stuck into the minutae of tactics, issuing every single player with specific instructions. With 9.3.0 I am using very slightly tweaked defaults and doing pretty well.

You're probably right, but I genuinely feel that I've tried my best and just feel like I'm playing blind, waiting to stumble upon something that works. Unfortunately that sucks all fun out of the game for me.

I'm fully aware that my frustration simply comes from the fact that I can't win a single game, but as I said earlier, I feel that's understandable.

Don't give up on it yet, fella. Took some getting used to but I'm honestly enjoying it way more than any other version. Shame it's so slow.

I was going to mention that my game also seemed a lot slower since 9.3.0, but thought it might be down to something else. Has anyone else found their game runs a lot slower since they updated to 9.3.0, or is it just me?

I agree with your frustrations, unfortunately every time I air my views I get pummelled by the odd "fanboy" for it!!!

In essence 9.03 might be ok if your strikers actually "strike". I have tried laods of tinkering with them but still can't score. Makes me laugh that a grizzle of earlier patches were that too many 1 on 1 's were being missed. In 9.03 has anyone actually seen their players have a 1 on 1 to actually miss?! Very bizarre that not one AI rteam seems to push up!!

Instead of it being a tactical issue, have you looked at if it is a player issue with your tactic? You probably have but with such large changes to the match engine the way players used to perform in a position radically changed. I had to slightly tweak my tactics for this reason and I agree strikers are no longer as prolific as previously. They used to be my top scorers but currently my wingers seem to be taking over that role, though that may be caused by recent tweaks in set piece takers and positions etc.

Actually I haven't, so thanks for the suggestion. The trouble is I haven't thought of this because I have no way of knowing how players performances in a position have changed, or why. Without that knowledge I have no way of knowing what to change and why I need to change it. That's one reason I haven't gone to the tactics forum for help this time. The changes are just a stretch too far for me. Perhaps someone will be able to help me and I'll get a tactic set working for the players I have now. But what happens when I want to start with a different team, or my team evolves to have a different type of player?

Creating new tactics and tweaking them until they work seems to be a thing of the past, for me at least. There seems to be a very small margin for error with tactics, particularly in terms of strikers, and once you find something that works you dare not change it.

The formuala has become - trial and error, find something that works, stick with it. For me that's not fun, particularly when there is still no way of really knowing why something's not working.

Two observations - one professional, one personal.

- The activation at the start was cocked up on our behalf. Hands up, no excuses. It won't be that bad again.

- I'd very much recommend starting a new save with the 9.3 patch in place. I noticed what appeared to me to be a bit of "levelling" in terms of injuries, scoring etc in the first new season after I patched. I think that might not happen at the start of a new save. For all I know I could be starting a conspiracy with no base in fact, but there was definitely a little odd behaviour that I observed. Probably worth one look - I've noticed no discernable change in tactics effectiveness (I haven't changed them) so unless your old ones were exploiting a previous bug (possible, even if you didn't know it) that was fixed in 9.3 then you should be alright.

Good luck.

Two observations - one professional, one personal.

- The activation at the start was cocked up on our behalf. Hands up, no excuses. It won't be that bad again.

Much respect for that comment Matt, fair play to you.

- I'd very much recommend starting a new save with the 9.3 patch in place. I noticed what appeared to me to be a bit of "levelling" in terms of injuries, scoring etc in the first new season after I patched. I think that might not happen at the start of a new save. For all I know I could be starting a conspiracy with no base in fact, but there was definitely a little odd behaviour that I observed. Probably worth one look - I've noticed no discernable change in tactics effectiveness (I haven't changed them) so unless your old ones were exploiting a previous bug (possible, even if you didn't know it) that was fixed in 9.3 then you should be alright.

Good luck.

While it would be frustrating if I had to lose two seasons of my Sunderland save I'll give it a try, out of curiosity's sake more than anything else. It won't do my arguments much good if my problem can be solved by starting a new game though will it

In fairness, I think the activation comment was an abridged version of the official apology...

As for the tactics - I don't know, you could just be an awful tactician... However, I'd be interested to see. I'm toying with throwing away about 12 seasons for a restart - I've never *not* restarted a game after the final patch so I feel compelled to - I have no idea if it's better or worse, but it's always been a habit I've kept. Good luck.

As for the tactics - I don't know, you could just be an awful tactician...

It could well be that. We'll find out as wwfan has kindly offered to have a look at my tactics. But even if it does turn out to be that my tactics were flawed from the start, I'm still struggling to understand why I've suddenly become so useless at the tactical side of the game, when in the past it's always been an area I've had success with.

In fairness, I think the activation comment was an abridged version of the official apology...

As for the tactics - I don't know, you could just be an awful tactician... However, I'd be interested to see. I'm toying with throwing away about 12 seasons for a restart - I've never *not* restarted a game after the final patch so I feel compelled to - I have no idea if it's better or worse, but it's always been a habit I've kept. Good luck.

Matt, please no codes written in dotted letters and containing B's 8's 1's I's 5's and S's next year!!! ;-)

I was joking - however, the serious point is, I don't think the patch wrecked all tactics. As some other users have pointed out, it did make some significant changes. You certainly have the man for the job providing you with advice, however!

Matt, please no codes written in dotted letters and containing B's 8's 1's I's 5's and S's next year!!! ;-)

Happy to report that we've already fixed that issue (on FML and Empire Total War)...

Happy to report that we've already fixed that issue (on FML and Empire Total War)...

Great, I felt like I was a contestant on Countdown!!!

I was joking - however, the serious point is, I don't think the patch wrecked all tactics. As some other users have pointed out, it did make some significant changes. You certainly have the man for the job providing you with advice, however!

I hope wwfan can provide some insight, mainly because I was enjoying this Sunderland save and would like to continue it.

However, I look forward to FM10 as I know efforts are being made to improve the intuativeness of the tactical side of the game. For me this has been a big problem in '09, and even if I get help figuring out how to have some success at '09 I'll still think it is a problem, as I'd much rather figure these things out myself. At the moment I find this very very difficult.

As I said, hopefully this will improve for FM10

OMG are we seriously still complaining about the DRM thing? It was months ago and it only caused you a few hours of frusteration do you seriously need to still be complainign about it? Get over it :-(

Keep it constructive please.

OMG are we seriously still complaining about the DRM thing? It was months ago and it only caused you a few hours of frusteration do you seriously need to still be complainign about it? Get over it :-(

You clearly didn't actually read the opening post did you?

Great, I felt like I was a contestant on Countdown!!!

Really? I felt like i was temporarily dyslexic!

Not for long though as i breezed it first time lol

OMG are we seriously still complaining about the DRM thing? It was months ago and it only caused you a few hours of frusteration do you seriously need to still be complainign about it? Get over it :-(

If you read the whole opening post yu would realise what an ass you just made of yourself. Unless it was a tonugue in cheek comment (there is your way out!).

I found the OP to one of best, well written and constructive posts i have seen on here for some time. I feel a lot can be learnt from it, he didnt rant/vent or whatever and as a result is getting help off several people on the forums.

Gents - we'll be keeping this constructive - so no real need to rehash the inflammatory comments now please... Thank you!

chopper, I do hope your frustration and experience won't put you off of this forum - I for one have found you to be a prime example of how to be a constructive member of a community; you would be sorely missed.

To the OP,

I can agree with your post to a certain extent and your criticism is constructive which is a nice change from thread titles like these.

The activation was a hassle, I used the phone way because I actually dislike Steam but beyond that I was happy to play the game.

When you stated about you recognising where you had gone wrong, I would like to see a assistant manager help out in the situation, maybe it could be a new attribute in future releases and I agree that sometimes its difficult to see whats gone wrong. But also to see whats right. (I hope that is clear)

I have constantly gone through patches where I am rock solid at the back and scoring late winners and dominating games, but I also think that it adds realism that once in a while your gonna go 10-15 maybe 30 games without a win. And it could just be bad luck. I think that is kind of realistic in a way. (Unless you have a top quality team)

All I can say Chopper is keeping plugging away, maybe luck will change, maybe have a complete re-shuffle, maybe tweak. But I guess it comes down to choice really. FM 08 was pretty good, but in my opinion this is more realistic and long term

To the OP,

I can agree with your post to a certain extent and your criticism is constructive which is a nice change from thread titles like these.

The activation was a hassle, I used the phone way because I actually dislike Steam but beyond that I was happy to play the game.

When you stated about you recognising where you had gone wrong, I would like to see a assistant manager help out in the situation, maybe it could be a new attribute in future releases and I agree that sometimes its difficult to see whats gone wrong. But also to see whats right. (I hope that is clear)

I have constantly gone through patches where I am rock solid at the back and scoring late winners and dominating games, but I also think that it adds realism that once in a while your gonna go 10-15 maybe 30 games without a win. And it could just be bad luck. I think that is kind of realistic in a way. (Unless you have a top quality team)

All I can say Chopper is keeping plugging away, maybe luck will change, maybe have a complete re-shuffle, maybe tweak. But I guess it comes down to choice really. FM 08 was pretty good, but in my opinion this is more realistic and long term

The assman already comments on problems, the problem is, unless your a tactics guru, its can be hard to know how to rectify certain things.

For instance, "your assman feels the gap between defence and midfield is too big". Whilst some people know how to combat that, others wont. People who dont come on the forums or read the guides on offer for example. Perhaps a better way to implement it would be something like "your assman feels the gap between defence and midfield is big, he/she suggests that you do such and such to combat this". Just an idea.

chopper, I do hope your frustration and experience won't put you off of this forum - I for one have found you to be a prime example of how to be a constructive member of a community; you would be sorely missed.

No chance of that mate, this forum is the only thing that keeps the workday boredom at bay

The assman already comments on problems, the problem is, unless your a tactics guru, its can be hard to know how to rectify certain things.

For instance, "your assman feels the gap between defence and midfield is too big". Whilst some people know how to combat that, others wont. People who dont come on the forums or read the guides on offer for example. Perhaps a better way to implement it would be something like "your assman feels the gap between defence and midfield is big, he/she suggests that you do such and such to combat this". Just an idea.

I think a bigger problem is that in terms of tactics this is one of only very few things that the ass man actually says. Having eradicated this issue my tactics still don't work, and he now just resorts to telling me to close down certain opposition players without pointing out anything else that is wrong with my tactic.

I think a bigger problem is that in terms of tactics this is one of only very few things that the ass man actually says. Having eradicated this issue my tactics still don't work, and he now just resorts to telling me to close down certain opposition players without pointing out anything else that is wrong with my tactic.

I find the individual opponent instructions dont work, may a time i have done insructions on oppo players and it has backfired. Showing a striker onto his left foot when his profile says right foot only nearly always results in said player scoring against me!

The striker ratings in 9.1.0 were a bug which was fixed. They played as well as before or later. This is the one time I argue that FM tactics are not to blame

just thought i'd make a point on tactics. i did a little experiment when i was with aston villa, as to whether if under near identical circumstances, would the same tactics lead to similar results.

apparently not

i chose an aston villa vs portsmouth game. aston villa were 14th, portsmouth were 8th

the villa team was one i built over 3 seasons and which was doing well but had suddenly decided this season wasn't worth playing. portsmouth had a few new faces such as elano, but were still largely unchanged.

10games i replayed using my same tactics, and i don't think they would have changed the tactics every time, since i saved right before pressing 'submit team'. results (villa - pompey):

4-1

1-2

1-1

6-2

3-0

1-0

0-2

0-1

2-2

3-5

i'm not sure if that constitutes as drastic differences in results, but would i be wrong in saying that same tactics should lead to at least reasonably similar results, because if not then where does consistency come in. i understand that individual matches also have that chance to have drastic differences in results, but i was just curious about it, and if anyone can enlighten me, whether consistent tactics *should* lead to reasonably consistent results, or do the above look pretty normal.

ps i've never done this on earlier fm versions because i never had problems with drastic performance changes before

cheers!

It could be player performance inconsistancy

Chopper99 - sorry to read about your difficulties with patch 9.3.0.

Unfortunately I'm in no position to comment on the mechanics of this version as I'm living in self-imposed exile on 9.1.0 until SI host the patch on a mirror that ISN'T Rapidshare, but in terms of general gaming experience I'd like to suggest a couple of things that might endear you to version 9.3.0.

I noticed that you are continuing an old saved game. I know you've invested time and effort in your existing save and you've made it very clear that you are greatly disappointed with the changes it appears to have made in your save game. However I've never 'trusted' the assertion that you can continue an old saved game: the match engine may have been updated but the changes to weightings outside the ME take time to filter into the ME and the effects can't be counted on: in other words, I hypothesise that for a while you play the 9.3.0 ME with the 9.2.0 statistics and there is a period of transition.

Have you maybe considered starting afresh with a very short game (e.g. a half a season demo-length game) at Sunderland? Maybe give yourself a chance to apply your 9.3.0 tactics to the game as it is 'intended' to be? If after 10 games the results are the same then you can be sure in your mind that it is the changes to the ME of v9.3.0 at fault, but whilst there is the possible effect from a transition after continuing a save game between 9.2.0 and 9.3.0 then a little investigation may be in order.

The second aspect is the - and I hope you're not offended by this - 'Hair Shirt*' effect of picking a team that would struggle in its league. For the first few months of owning FM09 I played as a variety of small clubs and didn't really enjoy myself (although buying an entire squad in a week on amatuer contracts in Sweden had its charms...). Recently I took on the Community Challenge, set myself up at Porto and after a few months in-game (and a few weeks of playing time) I'm enjoying FM almost as much as I enjoyed FM07. I'm not winning every game by any stretch of the imagination, but I am enjoying the ride a lot more.

I only suggest this because you clearly aren't happy with something that you have invested a significant amount of time (and money) into, and I wouldn't like to see you give up on it due to sheer disappointment. Obviously I can't help you with your saved game, but if you are getting 1-to-1 tuition from WWFan then you've got help from the best around, and my 4-2-4-beating tactical advice is probably a bit redunant!

*Speaking as a man who is still playing 9.1.0, I know I've got a bit of cheek to mention the hair-shirt effect to somebody else! Couldn't think of a better phrase though...

In fairness, I think the activation comment was an abridged version of the official apology...

As for the tactics - I don't know, you could just be an awful tactician... However, I'd be interested to see. I'm toying with throwing away about 12 seasons for a restart - I've never *not* restarted a game after the final patch so I feel compelled to - I have no idea if it's better or worse, but it's always been a habit I've kept. Good luck.

I have used the same tactics for 10 seasons straight and my policy of bringing in youth players over 2-3 seasons works great to get them used to the system before they become key players i am either a master tactician or just lucky

I will never restart i love this save game, i even have 2 backup saves just incase my file becomes broken like some people have reported on the forums.

9.3 is the easiest FM i've ever played

Great post Chopper.

I must say that patch 9.3.0 has done the opposite to me and my before average tactics are now doing fairly well. But I think my example and yours are very similar and the match engine has seriously gone through some significant changes. The way my team played before 9.3.0 and how they do now (using the exact same tactic) is totally different and you would think I had bought a new team of players.

I am really sorry about your problems Chopper and the difference in ME logic is plain for all to see. The match engine in 9.2.0 needed a few improvements and I can not help but feel these adjustments made too much of an effect on how our tactics work.

I don't know what can be done about this in the future but I can't help but feel SI really need to work on that section of their patching.

Another possibility which I've seen raised elsewhere: the new 9.3.0 patch seems to put more emphasis on some of the hidden attributes for player development, transfers, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if some hidden attributes like consistency (or even obvious attributes like bravery or teamwork) have become more important to players' performances in the new ME.

This might lead to the issue suggested by xx11 -- your players are no longer suited to your particular tactics. For example, low bravery may now have more of an effect on a player set to hard tackling or an inconsistent striker may now be punished more by this deficiency. Come to think of it, I should probably take another look at my own tactics with these things in mind!

I feel your pain Chopster and I too have been very disappointed with 09, although I haven't experienced all of the problems you have mentioned, I have experienced a fair few.

I've often wondered why tactics change so dramatically with the introduction of each patch, and this is an issue I find particularly hard to abide considering the time frame between each patch and how it could quite easily ruin a save.

The game was released in November, it was difficult to get used to and took a lot of work to get tactics right, then 9.0.2 came along and guess what, everything we had figured out was out the window and we had to start over again, repeat procedure for 9.0.3. This may not sound like a major issue, but when you consider the complexity of the game and the time involved in creating tactics that not only work, but you also like, you’ve spent a majority of five months gaming time (for us casual gamers) fiddling with tactics in an attempt to enjoy the game.

Of course that isn’t a game ruiner in itself, and we can then “enjoy” the best part of 7 months gaming time with tactics “figured out”. However, the time taken to adjust your tactics could easily ruin a game, if it takes the guts of a season to get it right and that season doesn’t go too well. I could easily end up sacked from an enjoyable career save, because my tactics just stopped working and I wasn’t quick enough to get them sorted.

This time last year I was happy to devote the time to FM08 and create a tactic that worked and had my team playing good football. This time round, I have neither the time nor inclination to spend days of my life tweaking and fiddling, and I’ve resorted to downloading a tactic from TT&F. It has helped me enjoy the game a little bit more, but I still have that nagging ache at the back of my head because I just don’t feel involved with my team and their performance.

*Disclaimer: This isn’t a tactics discussion, it’s more a complaint about the impact of patches on tactics.*

shadowdancer's results are interesting here, because there's quite a variation. I know that chopper did some tests of his own earlier (before 9.3.0) and he found significantly less inconsistency than that if I remember correctly. Does this suggest that 9.3.0 is more subject to the random element? If so, that's not going to be universally popular by any manner of means.

shadowdancer's results are interesting here, because there's quite a variation. I know that chopper did some tests of his own earlier (before 9.3.0) and he found significantly less inconsistency than that if I remember correctly. Does this suggest that 9.3.0 is more subject to the random element? If so, that's not going to be universally popular by any manner of means.

It should be pointed out that the scores were inconsistent/random, but the results were similar. Four home wins, four away wins and two draws, of which only two games provided bizarre scorelines. To me that looks like scoreline is dictated dependent on random elements and perhaps a little too random at times, as it should be, but results are realisticially random.

It should be pointed out that the scores were inconsistent/random, but the results were similar. Four home wins, four away wins and two draws, of which only two games provided bizarre scorelines. To me that looks like scoreline is dictated dependent on random elements and perhaps a little too random at times, as it should be, but results are realisticially random.

Well I would have hoped for more consistency than that with identical input. Otherwise, we get back to the feeling that the result is something of a lottery and that it probably doesn't make a blind bit of difference what you choose for your tactics, which is the last thing that people would have wanted, I'd have thought.

Well I would have hoped for more consistency than that with identical input. Otherwise, we get back to the feeling that the result is something of a lottery and that it probably doesn't make a blind bit of difference what you choose for your tactics, which is the last thing that people would have wanted, I'd have thought.

The biggest inconsistency i have noticed since patch 9.3.0 is just how many times team A will completely dominate one half and team B will completely dominate another, this is noticeable in AI v's AI games as well?

The result should always be a lottery IMO. Tactics should play a deciding role, but i'd be sorely disappointed in the game if results were almost identiacl over a 10 game test, they should be as random as real football.

Sorry to hear you struggling. Maybe I am just lucky as I started playing straight with 9.3 (well I played demo a while) and I don't have experience from earlier patches as therefore I dont compare tactics between versions.

For me 9.3 looks good. I jumped from FM08 and I am doing better than I thought. I had a small experiment with Millwall and now I started dafuges challenge and I manage to keep clean sheets and play football that looks realistic.

btw. I didn't have any problems with registration as I have iMac

Rupal:

Chopper's original test was in a match where one team were clear favourites, if I recall. There's obviously going to be more variation in the outcome of any fixture where teams are more equally matched, so I don't think the above results show that anything's changed in 9.3.

Secondly, the sheer number of confounding variables mean that these kind of tests prove very little about how 'random' the game is. In this case, with one team controlled by the AI, you've no idea what aspects of their tactics they change, what their team talks are, etc. Even if the human user uses the same half-time team talk each time, the outcome is totally different depending on the context of the game.

Football games change completely depending on match events - who scores first, injuries, bookings, sendings offs, etc. It's not like you can get a reliable baseline for the consistency of the same game replayed in real-life, so I'm not sure what people are trying to measure it against.

I see no problems with the tactical side of the game, I have used the same tactic since I started playing the game with pretty much the same success. Yes I have off days and get battered, yes I have off months and can't get a win for toffee but don't all teams, just look at the "Top 4" irl this season, they have all had their dip in form at some point this season!

I wouldn't say I am a tactical genius, infact I'd say I'm quite lucky in getting my tactic to work so well as I've never been able to in any other version of the game and have had to revert to downloading tactics