Can we change scout feedback to reflect the current squad more?

Not sure the title really explains it as well as it could..

Basically, I have my scouts out looking for players in the likes of Chile and Mexico, and I'm often getting notifications that they highly recommend certain players. When I check their scout report, they say they'd either be a good or excellent signing for most MLS teams, which is fair enough, but it also says things like "They'd be the 4th best central defender in the squad if he joined". If they're not going to improve my current first XI, do I really need a special news item just about them? Can't we just limit that to ones that would improve the first XI and the rest go on to the more general news item when they finish?

I suppose it depends on the player and their age. It might say that they will only be 4th best, but that is 4th best at the minute, they could turn into the best.

In saying that, it is very frustrating when your scouts give you a list of players, who generally aren't good enough for your team, but seem to meet the scouts requirements.

Ah, forgot to mention that a lot of them are either unlikely to improve in the future, or just won't improve enough to dislodge anybody in my first team anyway.

its also very annoying when you spend your transfer budget for someone who they think is better than your other players and hes well not. Stats at least 2 behind in the key points. Scouting needs improving, but to be fair to si they cant do it all at once.

Don't forget that "4th" best is the scout's opinion, not necessarily a totally reliable figure.

Don't forget that "4th" best is the scout's opinion, not necessarily a totally reliable figure.

But then if your scout has JPA & JCA of 18+ then surely you should be able to rely on their opinion otherwise what is the point of having scouts at all? I realise that there is a margin for error but if you look at the ability as a percentage then 18 would equal a 90% chance that the scout was right in his assessment.

I also think that the coach reports that you can get on your own team need too be massively improved as they are far to ambiguous at the moment.

Don't forget that "4th" best is the scout's opinion, not necessarily a totally reliable figure.

With that in mind, surely the scout shouldn't even recommend the player.

With that in mind, surely the scout shouldn't even recommend the player.

The scout's job is to recommend players he/she thinks is suitable for the team. It is then the manager's decision on whether to act on this.

Isn't this how it works in real life?

The scout's job is to recommend players he/she thinks is suitable for the team. It is then the manager's decision on whether to act on this.

Isn't this how it works in real life?

Yes but I think the question is whether a decent scout would recommend a player who is only ever going to be a squad player unless he was significantly better than the current '4th best'.

I also think that we should be able to ask the scout to assess the player in the exact position that we are trying to find a suitable player for. By this I mean that I play with an AMR and AML with no AMC. If I scout a player who plays in all three positions but is predominantly an AMC then the scout doesn't tell you how good he is at AMR & AML plus as I don't play an AMC it is irrelevant whether he is better than the player in my squad who is currently best at AMC. I hope that makes sense.

The scout's job is to recommend players he/she thinks is suitable for the team. It is then the manager's decision on whether to act on this.

Isn't this how it works in real life?

It is, but it seems unbelieveable that a scout would recommend a player that even they think is 4th choice, at best.

I would understand it if the scout came and said, this striker is first team quality, but you thought otherwise, but the scouts don't even seem to rate these players

The chief problem I see is scouts constantly saying "quality signing" or "definite purchase" about xx players that actually just suck (despite scout having high skills), but I imagine it is hard finding the correct relationship between my expectations - the games assesment of my squad.

It is, but it seems unbelieveable that a scout would recommend a player that even they think is 4th choice, at best.

I would understand it if the scout came and said, this striker is first team quality, but you thought otherwise, but the scouts don't even seem to rate these players

Why? Do teams never buy backup players? Or player with potential, that currently would be 4th best, but have the potential to be the best?

Scouts should not only recommend the elite players that will improve your squad. They are there to recommend any players that are capable of playing for your team.

Why? Do teams never buy backup players? Or player with potential, that currently would be 4th best, but have the potential to be the best?

Scouts should not only recommend the elite players that will improve your squad. They are there to recommend any players that are capable of playing for your team.

Of course teams need back up players, but I think that's the point the OP is making, we should be able to tell the scout what kind of player we're looking for i.e. backup or first choice.

Regards potential, I agree and I said as much earlier. However, the system already accounts for this with "the potential to be as good as...." line, but this isn't available for all players and many players who are suggested are 4th best and will remain 4th best.

Of course teams need back up players, but I think that's the point the OP is making, we should be able to tell the scout what kind of player we're looking for i.e. backup or first choice.

It's the scout's job to find players that he thinks are suitable, it is the manager's job to find the type of player he wants.

You can already use the current filtering system to define what you want the scout to return. A scout will never be able to recommend only "first team" or "backup" players because the only person that decides those roles is the manager.

You can already use the current filtering system to define what you want the scout to return. A scout will never be able to recommend only "first team" or "backup" players because the only person that decides those roles is the manager.

Scouts already do recommend whether or not the player is first team quality, that's what the 4th choice bit is all about, it's simply a matter of telling them that you aren't interested in players that they think is going to be 4th choice.

If a scout says the player would be the 4th best striker, I take that as saying they are a backup player at best.

Scouts already do recommend whether or not the player is first team quality, that's what the 4th choice bit is all about, it's simply a matter of telling them that you aren't interested in players that they think is going to be 4th choice.

If a scout says the player would be the 4th best striker, I take that as saying they are a backup player at best.

Yes, in their opinion. They are not managers though, so they cannot possibly force a role onto the manager. They can however, suggest how they think the player lines up in the currect squad.

I get what you're saying but it's unrealistic to set scouts to only report on the players they think will be 1st/2nd best at the club. You don't need to tell a scout that you wouldn't be interested in that level as you do that when scanning through the reports.

This is why there is a star-based recommendation system. It means the user can quickly see the players the scouts would consider as excellent signings (those that would be, or would gro to be those 1st/2nd choices you are looking for). Want players that will go straight into your team? Then look at the star recommendation.

Yes, in their opinion. They are not managers though, so they cannot possibly force a role onto the manager. They can however, suggest how they think the player lines up in the currect squad.

I get what you're saying but it's unrealistic to set scouts to only report on the players they think will be 1st/2nd best at the club. You don't need to tell a scout that you wouldn't be interested in that level as you do that when scanning through the reports.

This is why there is a star-based recommendation system. It means the user can quickly see the players the scouts would consider as excellent signings (those that would be, or would gro to be those 1st/2nd choices you are looking for). Want players that will go straight into your team? Then look at the star recommendation.

I think you are kind of missing the point some people have brought up. This is it:

You are searching for an AMR so ask your scout to find one.

Scout comes back with a player that can play there(accomplished) but is a natural AMC.

Your team does not use an AMC.

Your scout tells you he is better than your best AMC.

You want to know what he is like compared to your AMR, not AMC.

You have the same problem when you have a world clas player that is natural in 3/4 positions. Your scout compares everyone to him. You normally have a position that you play him all the time. The scout should be able to pick this up from where he has played. SO if your player has played 40 games as an MC you do not want him compared to potential wingers.

It would be handy if you could at the start of a season select your best XI players for your formation. Your scout can then compare potential signings to the player that is currently playing in this position.

I get what you're saying but it's unrealistic to set scouts to only report on the players they think will be 1st/2nd best at the club. You don't need to tell a scout that you wouldn't be interested in that level as you do that when scanning through the reports.

Alternatively, I think it's unrealistic for a manager to sit and go through a list of players that have been deemed 4th best! If I were a manager i'd find than unnecessary, and tell them to only bring me reports of players that are of the required standard.

Alternatively, I think it's unrealistic for a manager to sit and go through a list of players that have been deemed 4th best! If I were a manager i'd find than unnecessary, and tell them to only bring me reports of players that are of the required standard.

That's what the star recommendation system already does for you. You sort by recommendation, and all the good ones are at the top so you don't have to sort through them.

This way you have the benefit of not wasting a scout's time.

An example scenario: Say you send him to scout for a first teamer, and he only brings back first teamers. Then you get an injury to your only backup GK that will see him out for several months. A first team GK is not appropriate, so you have to send your scout out again just to look for backup players. These backup players would have been noted as an aside to the better finds if the scout is sent out without any requirements as to first team/backup (the way it is currently done).

I think you are kind of missing the point some people have brought up. This is it:

You are searching for an AMR so ask your scout to find one.

Scout comes back with a player that can play there(accomplished) but is a natural AMC.

Your team does not use an AMC.

Your scout tells you he is better than your best AMC.

You want to know what he is like compared to your AMR, not AMC.

You have the same problem when you have a world clas player that is natural in 3/4 positions. Your scout compares everyone to him. You normally have a position that you play him all the time. The scout should be able to pick this up from where he has played. SO if your player has played 40 games as an MC you do not want him compared to potential wingers.

It would be handy if you could at the start of a season select your best XI players for your formation. Your scout can then compare potential signings to the player that is currently playing in this position.

Exactly my point Menion, we need the scout to tell us how the player plays in the specified position rather than the one he percieves him to be best in. We should be able to tell a scout to assess a particular player in a specific position.

An example scenario: Say you send him to scout for a first teamer, and he only brings back first teamers. Then you get an injury to your only backup GK that will see him out for several months. A first team GK is not appropriate, so you have to send your scout out again just to look for backup players. These backup players would have been noted as an aside to the better finds if the scout is sent out without any requirements as to first team/backup (the way it is currently done).

Good example, and you're right, to an extent The typical scout report should continue in this manner, but we should have the option to be more specific and attribute specific isn't necessarily good enough.

Here's my example I have two really good backup goalkeepers, but neither are good enough to make first choice, and I don't want to waste my time sifting through scout reports of goalkeepers that include unnecessary backup options, I want a lsit of first choice keepers. I should have the option to tell my scout that I don't want to hear from him, unless he has a top notch keeper, I don't care about attributes, I just want a solid first choice stopper.

Not only would this give me a list of players I am more than likely to be interested in, but it will reduce the amount of work for the scout and reduce the amount of reports I have to read through in order to make a decision.

In other words, yeah basic scouting assignments are fine and should include backup players, but I should be able to make a decision on what type of player the scout is looking at and if that goes wrong, on my head be it.

Wow, the thread's grown since I went shopping. Anyway, the point was, I don't mind the scout actually looking at players that would be 4th choice and they come up on the scouting list, even though I'll always ignore them anyway. Its things like this:

Pic 1

Pic 2

The first image shows the scout has sent me a specific message about this player, rather than reporting back many findings. The second shows that this player would be absolutely no use to me. I already have 5 players better than him, he's 31 and will not be improving in the future, and in fact, he's only rated as a "decent" signing for a typical MLS team, not one trying to challenge for the title like I am.

He's already watched the player in the first place to see how he is, so I've no problem with checking his reports in the list and this player appearing there, but why would he warrant a special one-off message to my inbox?

The points other people have raised are all valid though, in particular telling the scout I want reports on players in the AMR position, for example, when they're comfortably as both AMR and AMC.

You got that news report because you had a scout watching him at the same time he had an excellent game, so he thought he'd tell you he had an exellent game. The star rating is the one that is used (over the "nth best" thing) as the star rating tells you how good he would be for the team, and the "nth rating" is purely his personal ranking of the player with similar players.

So, in summary, he is being recommended to you because his skill level is right for your team.

How can his skill level be right for the team, but at the same time, the scout recognise that he would be the 6th best in that position? :confused:

How can his skill level be right for the team, but at the same time, the scout recognise that he would be the 6th best in that position? :confused:

Because that team have a surplus of players that are good for the team. Often when you get reports like this their skill levels (CA wise) are very close together, so the "better" element can sometimes be very small.

Because that team have a surplus of players that are good for the team. Often when you get reports like this their skill levels (CA wise) are very close together, so the "better" element can sometimes be very small.

Surely he wouldn't be recommended as a signing then as the squad does not need 6 strikers of equal ability, playnig for (a probable) 2 starting positions.

Because that team have a surplus of players that are good for the team.

In which case, it would make sense to be able to tell your scout not to bother looking for players that are "good" enough for your team.

It's more annoying when you are a top team in a top league. When your scouts are set to scout competitions, i.e. English u18s or Italian u20s, and the return with a news item recommending a player. When you open that report they give the player 2-3 stars for both estimated CA and PA and say they think this payer will turn into a good League One or League Two player so no where near good enough to get anywhere near the first team.

It happens to me in the EPL a lot, pre 9.3.0 haven't played in a league that high yet, and it's damn irritating. It you just set a scout to search a country, i.e. England, or a region, UK and Ireland, they don't keep filling your news with recommendations for no hopers, it's only when scouting a competition.

It would save allot of mouse clicks and time if you could see the star ratings of the player in the news screen. You already have some info on the player to the right of the news item. Just add the star ratings aka the scouts recommendation to the same info panel.

Or have a setting in the scouts mission screen somewhere where the only recommendations that you want your scout to come to you immediately is when he recommends the player with a number of stars that you decide on.

Basically this could mean telling the scout that you are at this time only looking for players that is going to strengthen the first team, when setting the star recommendation for current ability to 4 stars and upwards.

Surely he wouldn't be recommended as a signing then as the squad does not need 6 strikers of equal ability, playnig for (a probable) 2 starting positions.

In which case, it would make sense to be able to tell your scout not to bother looking for players that are "good" enough for your team.

The scout is not saying "you should get this player." He is saying "if you decide to move for this player, this is how I think he compares."

The scout informs the user of the players qualities, flaws and other things. It is the manager's decision what to then do with this information.

Why? Do teams never buy backup players? Or player with potential, that currently would be 4th best, but have the potential to be the best?

In that instance I make a further case for the necessity for the comparison to player X section to be available from a drop-down rather than always comparing them against your best player.

I'll give up, but only on the understanding that we agree to disagree

The scout is not saying "you should get this player." He is saying "if you decide to move for this player, this is how I think he compares."

The scout informs the user of the players qualities, flaws and other things. It is the manager's decision what to then do with this information.

Sorry skorp, I know that you could say it depends on your interpritation of the report but if a scout says "he would be a quality signing" then I think he's saying "get this player". If he was comparable then surely something along the lines of "he's a good player but won't improve your squad" or "he's a good player but no better than you already have".

Sorry skorp, I know that you could say it depends on your interpritation of the report but if a scout says "he would be a quality signing" then I think he's saying "get this player".

He's saying that if you, the manager, decide to sign him then that is the quality he thinks he would be at. So, he is saying, if you choose to buy him, he will be a good player for the team. He is not saying you have to buy him. He is merely recommending him (recommend is the terminology that is used for scouting in-game, so I don't see why people suddenly think he is telling you to buy someone).

In that instance I make a further case for the necessity for the comparison to player X section to be available from a drop-down rather than always comparing them against your best player.

this would be a good idea, if im looking for a backup to my 1st choice right winger because my backup, i'd ask the scout to compare any AMR's to my backup, whereas if i was looking for a replacement, i'd tell the scout "right, im looking for someone better than X who is my best AMR, do it!" etc etc.

He's saying that if you, the manager, decide to sign him then that is the quality he thinks he would be at. So, he is saying, if you choose to buy him, he will be a good player for the team. He is not saying you have to buy him. He is merely recommending him (recommend is the terminology that is used for scouting in-game, so I don't see why people suddenly think he is telling you to buy someone).

Skorp, that is an interpritation of the phrase "Atkinson believes that even though Corrie isn't gettng any younger he would still be a quality signing" He's not saying he would be a good player for the team, he is saying he would be a quality player, in my opinion. Surely if he merely meant a good player then he would say good?

I am not suggesting that the scout is trying to dictate to the manager who he should buy but he is offering his assessment of the player to the manager. He is saying that he thinks he would be the 6th best striker and be a quality signing, I'm sorry but whatever way you try to spin that the two parts of the same report contradict each other.

Skorp, that is an interpritation of the phrase "Atkinson believes that even though Corrie isn't gettng any younger he would still be a quality signing" He's not saying he would be a good player for the team, he is saying he would be a quality player, in my opinion. Surely if he merely meant a good player then he would say good?

"Quality" or "good", there's no difference. He's still not telling you to do anything, he's simply saying that's how he thinks he would fit at the team. The only time scouts are directly suggesting to the manager that a player should be bought is when you see the strings similar to "[scout] believes that you should sign [person] at whatever the cost".

"Quality" or "good", there's no difference. He's still not telling you to do anything, he's simply saying that's how he thinks he would fit at the team. The only time scouts are directly suggesting to the manager that a player should be bought is when you see the strings similar to "[scout] believes that you should sign [person] at whatever the cost".

I'm sorry skorp but we are going to have to agree to disagree on whether there is a difference in a scout report that says quality or good.

I have still never stated that the scout is telling the manager to buy the player I am stating that a player cannot be the 6th best player in a position at a club if he were to be purchased and at the same time be a quality signing. Therefore the scouts report is contradictory at best.

Scout reports judge potential players against the club reputation, not the current squad.

I could have the four best goalkeepers in the world, but if another world class goalkeeper is scouted it'll still say he'll be a quality signing.

If the current situation isn't changed (as in, judging players against club reputation) then the wording of the recommendations needs to change.

Scout reports judge potential players against the club reputation, not the current squad.

I could have the four best goalkeepers in the world, but if another world class goalkeeper is scouted it'll still say he'll be a quality signing.

If the current situation isn't changed (as in, judging players against club reputation) then the wording of the recommendations needs to change.

That is something I didn't know CaptainPlanet. If that is correct then it needs to change as the player should be judged on the current squad otherwise the scouts are pretty much useless. We can tell who the worldclass players are from their own reputation in the player screen!

If the keeper would only be the 5th best keeper at the club if he was to be signed then surely he should not be 'a quality signing' as he would never really get a game and therefore what would he bring to the club?

Indeed, the scout is basically saying "He would be the sort of quality player that could play first team football at your club based on the level they are currently playing at" and not "He would add quality value to your current squad of players"

As I said, either the system or the wording needs to change to help make more sense.

Indeed, the scout is basically saying "He would be the sort of quality player that could play first team football at your club based on the level they are currently playing at" and not "He would add quality value to your current squad of players"

As I said, either the system or the wording needs to change to help make more sense.

Definitely needs to change one way or the other then. I personally feel that unless a player would be in the top 4 players in the current squad in that position then they should never be classed as anything other than a 'last resort'. Also as has been said, we should be able to dictate which position we want the scout to assess the player in.

we should be able to dictate which position we want the scout to assess the player in.

Definitely, and a comparison to all of your existing players in that position. "would be the 5th best striker in the squad" isn't enough detail for me.

Definitely, and a comparison to all of your existing players in that position. "would be the 5th best striker in the squad" isn't enough detail for me.

Completely agree. We should be told more about the style of play he has (eg. if he's a striker does he like to play up alone or off of someone. Does he drop deep and collect the ball etc etc). Even if this means that we had him scouted for a period of time such as two months. It would also be good for scouts to be able to search for loan signings (I don't believe they can at the moment and that would be good for LLM)

It would also be good for scouts to be able to search for loan signings (I don't believe they can at the moment and that would be good for LLM)

This is already in the game, in two places.

1) Squad -> Action Buttons -> Assistant Advice -> Compile Loan Players Availability Report

2) Any AI squad -> Action Buttons -> Loan Report

This is already in the game, in two places.

1) Squad -> Action Buttons -> Assistant Advice -> Compile Loan Players Availability Report

2) Any AI squad -> Action Buttons -> Loan Report

Ok, thanks skorp. I never realised this. What do you think about the way the scouts report and do you think it needs changing?

The scout's job is to recommend players he/she thinks is suitable for the team. It is then the manager's decision on whether to act on this.

Isn't this how it works in real life?

I can remember an interview sometime last year with Gordon Strachan, outlining how it works...scout goes out and finds player. Scout passes recommendation onto someone else at the club (assistant manager?). If this person likes the player, he then passes a recommendation onto Strachan. Strachan takes a look and if he likes what he sees then he goes to the chairman...who then says that they don't have the funds to bring the player in

Definitely, and a comparison to all of your existing players in that position. "would be the 5th best striker in the squad" isn't enough detail for me.

...would it not be safe to assume that you should have at least a vague grasp of how your own squad lines up? Taking your example, "would be the 5th best striker in the squad" with Man Utd would suggest that the player is of quality roughly in line with Fraizer Campbell or Danny Welbeck, and quite a way off Berbatov/Rooney/Tevez. You've got enough info, you don't need to be spoonfed any more.

...would it not be safe to assume that you should have at least a vague grasp of how your own squad lines up? Taking your example, "would be the 5th best striker in the squad" with Man Utd would suggest that the player is of quality roughly in line with Fraizer Campbell or Danny Welbeck, and quite a way off Berbatov/Rooney/Tevez. You've got enough info, you don't need to be spoonfed any more.

I don't think it's safe to assume that at all.

What if it said "3rd best striker" and you had Berba/Rooney/Tevez, now it usually gives an indication of who the best player in the squad is (e.g. Rooney) but who would he be behind and ahead of? The game based on it's calculations may think that the scouted player is better than Tevez but worse than Berbatov - but it doesn't tell you that.

I don't think it's safe to assume that at all.

What if it said "3rd best striker" and you had Berba/Rooney/Tevez, now it usually gives an indication of who the best player in the squad is (e.g. Rooney) but who would he be behind and ahead of? The game based on it's calculations may think that the scouted player is better than Tevez but worse than Berbatov - but it doesn't tell you that.

If you get a coach report on one of your players some of the time it will tell you he is the Xth best player in that position, the ability for your scouts to report on your own players again would be nice, as it would allow you to compare the scouts opinion of the new player against your current player(s).

It would also be nice to tell your scouts to only give individual news items on players with certain star ratings - so set it to 6 stars potential and when he comes across a player he will only give you the news report if he reckons he's a 6 or 7 star potential player, he still makes the report on the player but its added to his scouted players list with the other players rather than getting a news item about him, it gets annoying and time consuming being given reports about League Two potential players when you are in the Championship, though still have them report back on players you have specificly ordered him to scout.

Alternatively instead of filtering the reports, more infomation could be added, the current/potential stars or even the recommened line that is with the other reports but not this for some reason - just make it easier and quicker for us to see how good the player is from the news report rather than having to go into the full report to get his CA/PA star rating.

More infomation could actually be added to all of the scout reports for example:

John Smith plays best as a Striker, he has the potential to be a leading championship striker, but is rather injury prone.

He is not currently good enough for our first team but has the potential to be our second best striker.

His club would be willing to let him go for £1m and he'd want £1K per week wages (or his club don't want to let him go but a bid of £10m would be hard for them to reject.)

Player is likely/won't get a work permit, (John Smith needs X more caps for a work permit to be granted.)

All of that apart from the bits in brackets is already in the scout report, putting more of that infomation into the news report cuts down on mouse clicks and makes the game more user friendly.

Agree with all of the above

Also a mention of preferred moves in the reports would be quite nice.