Ridiculous "after 1 international" transfers

Isn't it about time SI did away with the possibility of clubs being ruined because of their stupid actions on the transfer market ? I just sold a player with a CA of about 120 for 0£ down, but 40M£ after he plays one international, which he will since he's from a small country. I've done this numerous times in the past to all kinds of clubs and it works almost every time. Let a player (most often from a small country) go for free with an additional fee of 40M£ after one international. Then after his move to a bigger league he will be noticed by his country's manager and get a cap and whatever club bought him is ruined and I'm unrealistically rich. Kind of goes against the whole "realism" thing, doesn't it ?

dont do it then

there's an easy way to prevent this: Don't do it!

Edit - Beaten to the punch .. once again

Damn you mickeycee! )

obviously hes bored tonight,if i put my finger in my eye it hurts,anyone know what i should do?

It should obviously be fixed but like the other guys said, just don't do it if you find it spoils your game.

the other eye will get mad so you should probably poke it too. Im all about equal treatment

I've been looking through some transfer clauses over the past few days and I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't do anything of the sort. It's an exploit that you're choosing to use and you're ruining your own game. I'm sure the loophole will get closed but we've got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

Sure, I could choose not to do it, but then where do I draw the line ? If 40M£ is too much, then how about 10m£ ? Or 1 M£ ? Or how about 3,99 £ ?

If I want to sell a player am I supposed to always ask myself what is too much ? Are AC Milan supposed to turn down 130 M£ for Kaka because they don't think it's realistic ?

It shouldn't be up to me to choose what I want for my player, it should be up to the market. And proper programming.

Sure, I could choose not to do it, but then where do I draw the line ? If 40M£ is too much, then how about 10m£ ? Or 1 M£ ? Or how about 3,99 £ ?

If I want to sell a player am I supposed to always ask myself what is too much ? Are AC Milan supposed to turn down 130 M£ for Kaka because they don't think it's realistic ?

It shouldn't be up to me to choose what I want for my player, it should be up to the market. And proper programming.

Look at it this way then, if you wouldn't pay it yourself (if you think it would be unrealistic) it's too much to ask the AI teams to pay.

As said above, it's a loophole that is being exploited.

I appreciate the OP's dilemma. He's found a loophole to the system and now finds it hard not to use. Why shouldn't he get the best deal possible, without technically cheating? It's similar to the old corner bug where it was far too easy to score and SI basically told us not to take advantage when it should really have been fixed.

I think the only way around is to pretend the "international appearances" clause doesn't exist, I've not once used it.

Stick to the other options.

Look at it this way then, if you wouldn't pay it yourself (if you think it would be unrealistic) it's too much to ask the AI teams to pay.

That's nonsense, I'll sell my players for as much as I can get!! Though will stop short of using this loophole in the system.

That's nonsense, I'll sell my players for as much as I can get!! Though will stop short of using this loophole in the system.

Erm... contradicting yourself a bit there? You'll sell them for as much as you can get, but won't use the loophole that i was referring to? I think you need to re-read my point to the OP.

Erm... contradicting yourself a bit there? You'll sell them for as much as you can get, but won't use the loophole that i was referring to? I think you need to re-read my point to the OP.

I'll try and get as much using the normal avenues, whether I think the AI are being ripped off or are paying too much isn't relevant. I won't use a method that is borderline cheating like being discussed here.

I appreciate the OP's dilemma. He's found a loophole to the system and now finds it hard not to use. Why shouldn't he get the best deal possible, without technically cheating? It's similar to the old corner bug where it was far too easy to score and SI basically told us not to take advantage when it should really have been fixed.

I think the only way around is to pretend the "international appearances" clause doesn't exist, I've not once used it.

Stick to the other options.

That's nonsense, I'll sell my players for as much as I can get!! Though will stop short of using this loophole in the system.

That is not nonsense. If it bothers the OP or anyone so much then don't use it. If it does not bother the person then use it. I don't see the point of complaining about a loophole in the game that you can just ignore. Sure it shouldn't be there but they happen and you can ignore it like I said if you want to.

I won't use a method that is borderline cheating like being discussed here.

But that is what i was referring to, not other transfers. He asked 'where do I draw the line' in terms of how much is too much after 'x' international appearances and I gave him a suggestion.

I'm saying that if I can get 10 million for a player thats only worth 2 million then I'll take it. I won't say "nah, thats too much for him, I'll negotiate to 7 million".

I'm referring to the point

if you wouldn't pay it yourself (if you think it would be unrealistic) it's too much to ask the AI teams to pay.

I'm saying that if I can get 10 million for a player thats only worth 2 million then I'll take it. I won't say "nah, thats too much for him, I'll negotiate to 7 million".

I'm referring to the point that if as being nonsense, because it's simply not the case in general.

See my above point!

I sympathise with the OP's point. The purpose of playing FM is to beat the AI. If we have to refrain from doing things that make it too easy we might as well just not buy the game at all and imagine a realistic career instead.

On the other hand this isn't an area of the game I actually use anyway so it's not such a big deal for me.

See my above point!

Gotcha, the quote I referred to was a bit general, didn't quite get that you were specifically talking about the international appearances bit. (though I appreciate that what the thread is about)

Time I was moving on:D

That is not nonsense. If it bothers the OP or anyone so much then don't use it. If it does not bother the person then use it. I don't see the point of complaining about a loophole in the game that you can just ignore. Sure it shouldn't be there but they happen and you can ignore it like I said if you want to.

I just want the game to as close to real life as possible is all. My argument is that it shouldn't be up to me to choose what constitutes reality, it should already be in the programming. If someone offers me a high price for one of my reserve players (even with no international loophole involved) am I supposed to hold a meeting with myself and say : "Well, that offer is probably about 30% above his actual value. I'd better ask them to give me a LOWER offer because it's just not realistic as is."

What makes a manager a good actor on the transfer market ? Maximizing profit. Buying low and selling high. Saying that I shouldn't sell for more than I would pay myself is, no offense to mije1983, a bit silly. Selling players for more than they're worth is the whole point, isn't it ?

I just want the game to as close to real life as possible is all. My argument is that it shouldn't be up to me to choose what constitutes reality, it should already be in the programming. If someone offers me a high price for one of my reserve players (even with no international loophole involved) am I supposed to hold a meeting with myself and say : "Well, that offer is probably about 30% above his actual value. I'd better ask them to give me a LOWER offer because it's just not realistic as is."

What makes a manager a good actor on the transfer market ? Maximizing profit. Buying low and selling high. Saying that I shouldn't sell for more than I would pay myself is, no offense to mije1983, a bit silly. Selling players for more than they're worth is the whole point, isn't it ?

Okay, I'm not moving on yet:p

This is kind of the point I was trying to get across. This in my book (and most I'm sure) is perfectly normal. The international clauses loophole is most definitely a different kettle of fish though. Like I said earlier, ignore this clause completely and get as much as you can using the other features. You can still get some very good deals.

I just want the game to as close to real life as possible is all. My argument is that it shouldn't be up to me to choose what constitutes reality, it should already be in the programming. If someone offers me a high price for one of my reserve players (even with no international loophole involved) am I supposed to hold a meeting with myself and say : "Well, that offer is probably about 30% above his actual value. I'd better ask them to give me a LOWER offer because it's just not realistic as is."

What makes a manager a good actor on the transfer market ? Maximizing profit. Buying low and selling high. Saying that I shouldn't sell for more than I would pay myself is, no offense to mije1983, a bit silly. Selling players for more than they're worth is the whole point, isn't it ?

He was quite clearly referring to this 1 Cap exploit, not all transfers in general.

I just want the game to as close to real life as possible is all. My argument is that it shouldn't be up to me to choose what constitutes reality, it should already be in the programming. If someone offers me a high price for one of my reserve players (even with no international loophole involved) am I supposed to hold a meeting with myself and say : "Well, that offer is probably about 30% above his actual value. I'd better ask them to give me a LOWER offer because it's just not realistic as is."

What makes a manager a good actor on the transfer market ? Maximizing profit. Buying low and selling high. Saying that I shouldn't sell for more than I would pay myself is, no offense to mije1983, a bit silly. Selling players for more than they're worth is the whole point, isn't it ?

It is the point, and if you don't have a problem with it thats fine But I was trying to help you out with a suggestion as you seemed to be bothered by the loophole.

It may be annoying but as Chris Ritchie said, they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

EDIT: Yes Kain, that's exactly what I was referring to, and have reiterated this three times now!

I just want the game to as close to real life as possible is all. My argument is that it shouldn't be up to me to choose what constitutes reality, it should already be in the programming. If someone offers me a high price for one of my reserve players (even with no international loophole involved) am I supposed to hold a meeting with myself and say : "Well, that offer is probably about 30% above his actual value. I'd better ask them to give me a LOWER offer because it's just not realistic as is."

What makes a manager a good actor on the transfer market ? Maximizing profit. Buying low and selling high. Saying that I shouldn't sell for more than I would pay myself is, no offense to mije1983, a bit silly. Selling players for more than they're worth is the whole point, isn't it ?

No, but if you think that getting £40m after 1 international cap knowing full well that he is virtually certain to get the cap then don't do it if you want to play the game realistically.

You don't have to use the international cap clause at all if you don't want to or you can use it as realistically as you like.

Ok, I think that's about all she wrote on that subject. I'll ignore the international loophole.

I have just tried this and it doesn't seem to work although typing this i have just realised it probably applies to someone who is not already capped,hence why Ajax keep pulling out of the te Jan VofH deal

Is that the case, it is a useful exploit to have especially for the old firm clubs

This is definitly nonsense, Dont know what the OP is on about , usual load of rubbish

You do realise this transfer clause is used all the time? (to the OP) but i do understand what you mean but it is a part of the game which is lesser known. Instead of the OP's idea to get rid of it, it should be developed.

I don't understand at all why someone should refrain from using a certain aspect of programmed transfer dealings. They don't work well, so he should refrain from using it instead of asking the programmers to improve this particular aspect of the game? That doesn't make much sense, now does it? If there's a loophole in the system it should be fixed, not ignored.

But there is no loophole, it doesn't work the buying club always pull out of the deal

But there is no loophole, it doesn't work the buying club always pull out of the deal

I understand Kimjjj has experienced otherwise... I'd say this qualifies as a bug if it happens.

Well lets see his screenshots for it then, I think Kimjj has embarked on a bit of tomfoolery

Theres a few situations where this clause makes perfect sense to use, say you're a very small club and the big boy comes along trying to steal your top talent. He would have to pay a couple of million to get him from a similar sized club but you're so small he value is at maybe 50K so you arrange it to give you maybe £100K a 50% sell on and a big sweetener of a million or two after hes played some internationals which may not happen for a few years but should he become good you get payed for it.

The only problem is if you can't help yourself to be really greedy, buying up people from smaller nations and flogging them for extreme profit which is clearly unrealistic.

when the SI TEAM member says hes got bigger fish to fry does that mean that fm live is being given 100% focus at the moment and fm 09 isn't. Biting the hand that feeds isnt a great idea. Also fm is ridiculously over priced

But there is no loophole, it doesn't work the buying club always pull out of the deal

Just because you can't get it to happen doesn't mean others can't either. The best way to go about is to be managing a smallish club (I'm usually Brondby), sell a player from a smallish nation who is uncapped and thus has a relatively low reputation. Most clubs will fall for it, but not all. Ask for 0£ down, 40M after 1 international and 50% of next sale. The 50% is your insurance, so that if the player, against expectation, never gets capped, at least not before he's sold again, you at least get a little something.

The best players to try it with are players who judging by their abilities are players who COULD be playing for their country, but due to your clubs low rep isn't. If you have, say, a Peruvian player with reasonable abilities and then sell him to a club in one of the five big leagues, he'll almost certainly get a cap soon.

An even better situation arises if you are actually an international manager. Then you can sell crap players of your nation to ANY club using the loophole, give them one cap, and watch the money roll in.

when the SI TEAM member says hes got bigger fish to fry does that mean that fm live is being given 100% focus at the moment and fm 09 isn't. Biting the hand that feeds isnt a great idea. Also fm is ridiculously over priced

Or it means there are more important bugs in FM09 that need fixing, you also have to understand that if they did fix this bug (that other people cannot seem to recreate), the fix would need testing to make sure it didn't break anything else.

when the SI TEAM member says hes got bigger fish to fry does that mean that fm live is being given 100% focus at the moment and fm 09 isn't. Biting the hand that feeds isnt a great idea. Also fm is ridiculously over priced

As said above me they maybe are trying to fix higher priority bugs and they are bringing out a patch if you haven't realised for FM09.

The point is it is obviously a bug and yes should be fixed when possible but I don't want them to concentrate on that ahead fixing bigger bugs. If they get around to it as well then that is great.

It is a bug you can avoid in the game so it is not a huge issue at the moment.

Also FM is nowhere near overpriced in my opinion.

The FMLive and FM09 teams are also completely separate.

Now that you know about the bug kimjjj you have 2 choices. Use it or don't.

As for the rest of us leave the choice to us eh? Why should everyone have to play the same way you do?

An even better situation arises if you are actually an international manager. Then you can sell crap players of your nation to ANY club using the loophole, give them one cap, and watch the money roll in.

Okay, that is definitely cheating:eek: but meh, I guess you like to play that way, so I guess there's no big deal here

Okay, that is definitely cheating:eek: but meh, I guess you like to play that way, so I guess there's no big deal here

If you want to call something cheating then I think you first need to define what exactly "cheating" is. If I do something within the parameters of the game the developers have set up for me, if I don't use any kind of editor, or do anything to alter the programming and the progression of the game then I think I could argue it's not "cheating" to take advantage of bad programming.

Is "cheating" whenever something becomes unrealistic by the actions of the player ? If so, then isn't it cheating to manage a low level club and yet still be able to scout and buy the biggest talents in the game ? Isn't it cheating to somehow reasonably easily get 7 star coaches for your Scandinavian club ? Isn't it cheating to be able to click on your opponents' players and get info on their morale, favored clubs and personnel, squad status, and extremely accurate statistics regarding their form ? Isn't it cheating to be able to foresee how certain players react to certain situations because it's in their programming ?

If so then I think the pot is calling the kettle black.

Kimjjj, what you are doing is exploiting a loophole in the transfer system, like plenty of people before me have said. Let me break down that I mean by that:

A loophole is, according to thefreedictionary.com:

"A way of escaping a difficulty, especially an omission or ambiguity in the wording of a contract or law that provides a means of evading compliance."

So, in your case the difficulty you are escaping is the whole transfer process. You just offer £40m after 1 cap and you're done. No negotiating, a nice chunk of profit on a player.

However, you are also exploiting the use of the transfer system. You yourself have used the fact that players from smaller countries are more likely to get capped than ones from larger countries, and you are using this fact to gain profit. That part of it is cheating, whether it is inside the system or not - there are many different types of cheating.

I hope I've made this clear - you're exploiting a loophole and you are also cheating - within the terms I stated above - so other people have been correct. This is not 'bad programming' or a side to the game that shouldn't be implemented, it's just how the game is played. As many people have said above, don't use it if you don't like it. I don't use the 3D or the press conferences for that reason.

Kimjjj, It's within the parameters of the game to add yourself as another manager and buy one of your players for £100 million. Doesn't make it any less of a cheat. And it's a game btw, imagine how hard it would be if had to rely on what you saw on the pitch and that alone to help you make decisions on your players.

Another point kimjjj, along with what outlaw just said. Football Manager is a game with a limited amount of graphical detail - you can't truly see how good a specific player's passing is, or their technique, so the game gives you a rating for it, to give you and idea of what it would be *if you could see it properly*. You can always select 'attribute masking' when starting a new game if you don't like the level of detail that is on each players attribute page.

Okay, that is definitely cheating:eek: but meh, I guess you like to play that way, so I guess there's no big deal here

I hope I've made this clear - you're exploiting a loophole and you are also cheating - within the terms I stated above - so other people have been correct. This is not 'bad programming' or a side to the game that shouldn't be implemented, it's just how the game is played. As many people have said above, don't use it if you don't like it. I don't use the 3D or the press conferences for that reason.

Apparently Chris Ritchie doesn't agree with your assertion that it's good programming to leave that loophole in. He just thinks there are bigger challenges afoot.

I'll ask again : What is your definition of cheating ? Don't get me wrong, you might be right. I just think it's interesting to try to define what constitutes cheating.

Kimjjj, It's within the parameters of the game to add yourself as another manager and buy one of your players for £100 million. Doesn't make it any less of a cheat. And it's a game btw, imagine how hard it would be if had to rely on what you saw on the pitch and that alone to help you make decisions on your players.

Good point about the "another manager" thing.

But wouldn't it actually be more realistic without all that info ? IRL managers have to rely on their scouts, the media, their own eyes, and word of mouth to know what other players can do. Might be interesting if the game hid the numbers better. Would be more challenging. But yeah, perhaps the 3D has to get a lot better first.

My own definition of cheating:

Any way that someone unlawfully influences the outcome of an event, where it may benefit one person or hinder another.

There is no need to post the official definition of cheating as I have stated that you are only cheating within the terms I stated, so therefore they wouldn't be relevant.

So deliberating giving a cap to a player so your club side can rake it in isn't cheating?

Like I said, it's up to you, but your clearly fighting a losing battle in here trying to convince others that your not a cheat, so why are you even bothering?

Is "cheating" whenever something becomes unrealistic by the actions of the player ? If so, then isn't it cheating to manage a low level club and yet still be able to scout and buy the biggest talents in the game ? Isn't it cheating to somehow reasonably easily get 7 star coaches for your Scandinavian club ? Isn't it cheating to be able to click on your opponents' players and get info on their morale, favored clubs and personnel, squad status, and extremely accurate statistics regarding their form ? Isn't it cheating to be able to foresee how certain players react to certain situations because it's in their programming ?

none of this is cheating, it's a normal part of the game

My own definition of cheating:

Any way that someone unlawfully influences the outcome of an event, where it may benefit one person or hinder another.

There is no need to post the official definition of cheating as I have stated that you are only cheating within the terms I stated, so therefore they wouldn't be relevant.

I'm not asking for the official definition of the word cheating, thanks. I'm asking what you, within the FM world, would consider cheating.

Unlawful is just another word for cheating. It doesn't actually define it. Is cheating what is unrealistic ? Is cheating using the editor ? What ? To use one of my examples from before : I can get 7 star coaches for my team in lowly Scandinavia within one year. Clearly unrealistic. My competition can't or at least don't. That "influences the outcome" of the league. Is that cheating ? I can get 40M£ for a useless regen. My competion can't. Is that cheating ?

So deliberating giving a cap to a player so your club side can rake it in isn't cheating?

Like I said, it's up to you, but your clearly fighting a losing battle in here trying to convince others that your not a cheat, so why are you even bothering?

none of this is cheating, it's a normal part of the game

I'm not trying to convince people I'm not cheating. How could I possibly do that when the meaning of "cheating" has yet to be defined ?

Define "normal".

You asked me for my definition of cheating. You did not mention 'within the FM world' so don't give me that.

Within the FM world, the same things would still apply. You are, as you said, making £40M out of a useless regen. Let's say that regen *should* only get £1M for their transfer. A difference of £39M is cheating, no matter how you look at it.

Using the editor is NOT cheating, as that is what it is there for - to edit. If you had used the editor to change the value and reputation of the player, then many here would not call you a cheat, as it isn't, but the fact that you manipulated an in-game feature makes it cheating.

And no, unlawful does not mean cheating. Unlawful means to break the laws stated for something, whether it be a contract, code of conduct, stipulated laws, anything. That is not cheating.