AI cheat mode

Could someone please explain to me how, when I am (Liverpool) leading 2-0 against 10 men everton can any concievable tactic allow them to come back into the game. Also take into account that I have had 25 shots 16 on target to their 3 shots 2 on target. When I went 2-0 up I notice they were yet to even have a shot on goal. How can it be legitimate that the computer can come back at will and I'm left scratch my head?? Funnily enough I am watching pompy beat Utd in the FA cup yeaterday and yes, Man U couldn't hit a cows ar$e with a banjo and I understand strange things happen in footy. But alas this isn't the first time this has happened to me. I often go 2-0 up, pepper thier goal averaging 15-20 shots per game only for my CPU opponents to score at will when nesessary. Call me a synic but it does seem consistantly convieniant.

Could someone please explain to me how, when I am (Liverpool) leading 2-0 against 10 men everton can any concievable tactic allow them to come back into the game. Also take into account that I have had 25 shots 16 on target to their 3 shots 2 on target. When I went 2-0 up I notice they were yet to even have a shot on goal. How can it be legitimate that the computer can come back at will and I'm left scratch my head?? Funnily enough I am watching pompy beat Utd in the FA cup yeaterday and yes, Man U couldn't hit a cows ar$e with a banjo and I understand strange things happen in footy. But alas this isn't the first time this has happened to me. I often go 2-0 up, pepper thier goal averaging 15-20 shots per game only for my CPU opponents to score at will when nesessary. Call me a synic but it does seem consistantly convieniant.

it seems your ability to change or close games is about as good as keegans

it is always possible to come back from 2-0 down if the team is inspired to a better performance or the tactics are changed .

and if you dont respond to that or allow your players to become complacent then problems can arise.

at 2-0 up all it takes is one goal and it changes teh complection of the game.

OK, I will explain it to you.

As the game was starting to wind up, Everton switched to either a more attacking tactic or a different formation. You then didn't react to it, and probably kept your attacking play, which was easy for Everton to counter attack and score 2 in quick succession.

I do concur to these responses, everton naturally changed their formation and mentality in order to come back and equalise from 2 down. However my concern is chances to goals ratio and how it seems to be slightly biased toward the AI. If I am averaging 10-15 shots on goal and they can create a goal with ease is incredibly uncanny. When you are creating chance after chance, should you really change the way your playing? There doesn't seem to be any reward for expansive play. Even Alex Ferguson would be ripping his hair out (and that's probally why he's been sack on my version!!)I have tried sitting back at trying to hit them on the break, no joy. Tried keeping the ball, no joy. Is it not uncanny that when the AI team need a goal they get one. Can the AI see my tactis, do the know exactly how I am playing in order to counter it. Obviously the AI has more chance of knowing what I'm doing than I have of knowing what it is trying to do. Is football management was simply trial and error? Do you just simply guess and hope? I know based on the chances I create I should be winning more games, this is way I am reluctant to change anything.

Happens all the time: take a look at this thread I started.

Oh please.

The AI doesn't conspire to **** you off. Your either (very) unlucky or like Damian said, the opposition switched to a tactic that could defeat yours.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zoolok:

Happens all the time: take a look at this thread I started. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well based on the amount of discussion regarding this issue, it is a viable problem. Ok, some have found this not to be a problem and others have, I make it around a 50-50 split. This means that it's not just me and this maybe a bug rather than a tactical issue. For me the annoyance is with my shots to goal ratio: Again I average 10-15 shots on goal per game and very rarely score more than 2 goals and I will at least conseed 1. Ok my keeper may be an issue, but on further inspection the AI keeper, in most cases, is no better or worse, so pointing the finger to my keeper is either biased or contracdictary. This can occur against any team, good or bad, away or at home. My theory is if we are forced to change our tactics to be defensive after you take the lead then, as in the real world, it is very risky and you are relying on a certain amount of luck. Just as Portsmouth and Barnsley have done in recent FA cup games. But going back to my point, if this is a bug rather than a tactical issue, I think it should certainly be addressed. In the real world do you really believe when Liverpool are 2-0 up against 10 men Everton at Anfield, Everton you go no the attack...I doubt it. There would be more chance Liverpool would get a third and kill the game. I am worried the if the coding is based on the law of averages, why does it the sway in your opponents favour more often than not??

I agree with bullybeef alittle!

I was playing with Liverpool against sunderland, 2 - o up with 5 minutes to go, they score in the 86 minutes, 4 minutes go up on the board, so by 94.00 the ref should blow his whistle, they score in the 94.24 minutes.

Ever other game has stopped dead on 94.00 minutes, so the AI allowed the extra time for Sunderland to get the draw.

good way to blow a lead against Blunderland.

Its your tactics

*dons the tin hat*

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ianson75:

I agree with bullybeef alittle!

I was playing with Liverpool against sunderland, 2 - o up with 5 minutes to go, they score in the 86 minutes, 4 minutes go up on the board, so by 94.00 the ref should blow his whistle, they score in the 94.24 minutes.

Ever other game has stopped dead on 94.00 minutes, so the AI allowed the extra time for Sunderland to get the draw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty much all my games have 4 mins added time but I have yet to see the clock stop at 94'

It ALWAYS goes to 95'. Is this just me??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Millsy111:

Oh please.

The AI doesn't conspire to **** you off. Your either (very) unlucky or like Damian said, the opposition switched to a tactic that could defeat yours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are totally right. I have had teams come back against me many times and the reason is I didn't react to their changes. Like when a sub is made the opp instruction for that position is reset and so you need to make some change, thats why the in match tactics are set the way it is so you can make those changes whilst the game goes on because from my experience you have to change tactics much more on this game and rightly so.

Therefore you have to keep an eye on what the opposition are doing more often.

With such a great title, this thread should become the repository for ALL the conspiracy theorists and incompetent idiots who blame the game rather than look at their own inadequacies. That would leave the rest of us to ignore just the one thread and respond to the people open to sane discussion.

have you downloaded the patch yet

I can understand certain users response to this discussion regarding the shot to goals ratio, and again I can agree that a little switch of tactics in the right way will or may effect the game in your favour.

However, the smugness and naivity of some ppl of the fact that this does happen. I can consistanty outplay my opponents and pepper their goal (again averaging 15-20 shots on goal and I have looked at their keeper and he's no better than mine) and I will either have fought tooth and nail just to score a couple of goals, just about salvaged a draw or lost with 2 or 3 late goals. The fact is this does happen more often than not whether I change things or not and I have been playing FM for 2 years straight now and just recently started playing FM08. I have been video gaming for 30 yrs now and I have never had to test a game before I play it for real.

Because I am still not comfortable in my understanding with the tactics and the AI I cannot realistically play the game without knowing exactly what is going to happen. I have just played two games recently with both teams scoring with their first attack after a couple of minutes of so. Luckerly I got the results I wanted but again a certain amount of hope over management went into my methods.

I think if your a novice of a new match engine with each version or patch that is released, your assistant manager shpuld play a larger role in assiting your needs. I am sure most top class managers in the real world take some advice from their staff. All we get is their opinion of your best 11 and how many of us would admit to taking any notice of that? Your assistant manager should give you a detailed formation and tactics guide based on his own abilities/stats to counter who we are playing. If I go on holiday and leave him in charge with my players and his tactics, he usually gets the result I need. So why am I not allowed to know his tactics and how he got this result? Whether you take any notice of their advice is your choice, but your may as well not employ an assistant manager for the help you get from him.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by king_of_fm08:

have you downloaded the patch yet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, yes.

I've had games like this too. I've also had games were the AI team peppers my goal and fails to net more than one and my team waltz up the other end twice and score both times.

I took Fiorentina to Valancia in the UEFA cup and it was embarrassing - we were outclassed to a frightening degree as they absolutely dominated almost the entire game. We went 1-0 down and 2-1 down, both times managing to scramble an equaliser out of next to nothing to draw 2-2. My fans were very unhappy about the number of chances we allowed Valencia to have. Personally I was delighted that we had grabbed a totally undeserved point thanks to some clinical finishing in the face of next to no creativity.

Looking at things from a biased viewpoint will always cause you to think that the AI is getting the better of you "unfairly".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

I've had games like this too. I've also had games were the AI team peppers my goal and fails to net more than one and my team waltz up the other end twice and score both times.

I took Fiorentina to Valancia in the UEFA cup and it was embarrassing - we were outclassed to a frightening degree as they absolutely dominated almost the entire game. We went 1-0 down and 2-1 down, both times managing to scramble an equaliser out of next to nothing to draw 2-2. My fans were very unhappy about the number of chances we allowed Valencia to have. Personally I was delighted that we had grabbed a totally undeserved point thanks to some clinical finishing in the face of next to no creativity.

Looking at things from a biased viewpoint will always cause you to think that the AI is getting the better of you "unfairly". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This too has happened to me in the past, pariculary when I am the underdog, but when you play as one the top teams (i use Liverpool) the reverse happens more often then not.

Imagine your result happening to you 30 times a season, because Liverpool would be rated greater or equal to about 4 (home and away games) teams. 30 games were you struggle to beat the likes of sunderland etc.

Wouldn't you be paranoid or biased?

liverpool struggling to beat sub standard teams? my god, this game really IS realistic!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bullybeef:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

I've had games like this too. I've also had games were the AI team peppers my goal and fails to net more than one and my team waltz up the other end twice and score both times.

I took Fiorentina to Valancia in the UEFA cup and it was embarrassing - we were outclassed to a frightening degree as they absolutely dominated almost the entire game. We went 1-0 down and 2-1 down, both times managing to scramble an equaliser out of next to nothing to draw 2-2. My fans were very unhappy about the number of chances we allowed Valencia to have. Personally I was delighted that we had grabbed a totally undeserved point thanks to some clinical finishing in the face of next to no creativity.

Looking at things from a biased viewpoint will always cause you to think that the AI is getting the better of you "unfairly". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This too has happened to me in the past, pariculary when I am the underdog, but when you play as one the top teams (i use Liverpool) the reverse happens more often then not.

Imagine your result happening to you 30 times a season, because Liverpool would be rated greater or equal to about 4 (home and away games) teams. 30 games were you struggle to beat the likes of sunderland etc.

Wouldn't you be paranoid or biased? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I'm managing Werder Bremen in my current game who are, in German terms, as big as or bigger than Liverpool relative to their league and we beat the "smaller" teams most of the time. Infact we have had a fierce battle with Bayern Munich all season with neither club dropping more than a handful of points here or there. As it happens we've just been done up like a kipper at Hamburg where they had 2 shots on target and netted them both and we created 18 shots, 10 on target and scored just once. It has probably cost us a chance of the title, but these things happen and, in my case, not any more often than you'd expect so maybe you are just getting your tactics wrong.

The evil AI strikes again!!!

(add sinister laugh)

Someday, SI will reveal the secret code that is embedded in gamers' PCs that sends a signal to the website to register when they start posting. Then, when they post a certain number of negative comments, the web site sends a secret signal to the gamer's PC to enable "AI Cheating". The results, as you see, are quite devastating.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by postal postie:

it seems your ability to change or close games is about as good as keegans

it is always possible to come back from 2-0 down if the team is inspired to a better performance or the tactics are changed .

and if you dont respond to that or allow your players to become complacent then problems can arise.

at 2-0 up all it takes is one goal and it changes teh complection of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree- although (certainly in my experiences at lower league level) its far too easy to do this. It works both ways though- Ive rescued and even won many games with 2 or 3, sometimes even 5 goals in the dying minutes with the 424 that is just too damn effective.

I also find that again whether its the AI or me that switching to a 424 will always yield at least a goal which imo is silly, as its as if youve flicked the "score goals" switch to "ON".

BTW, there also seems to be no explanation available for my latest run-in with the "AI Cheat Mode" - in a recent match of mine, my opponent was leading 1-0 in the second half, and proceeded to put my side ahead on...not one, but two (count 'em, sports fans!) own goals, one of which went s-l-o-w-l-y into the net from 3/4 of the way up the pitch.

Maybe the AI got confused...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rav1410:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ianson75:

I agree with bullybeef alittle!

I was playing with Liverpool against sunderland, 2 - o up with 5 minutes to go, they score in the 86 minutes, 4 minutes go up on the board, so by 94.00 the ref should blow his whistle, they score in the 94.24 minutes.

Ever other game has stopped dead on 94.00 minutes, so the AI allowed the extra time for Sunderland to get the draw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty much all my games have 4 mins added time but I have yet to see the clock stop at 94'

It ALWAYS goes to 95'. Is this just me?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's because added time is a 'minimum of [amount of added time] added'.

not 'that's all your having regardless of any time wasting tactics and injuries that happened.'

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">that's because added time is a 'minimum of [amount of added time] added'.

not 'that's all your having regardless of any time wasting tactics and injuries that happened.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, now don't you try to palm off any of that factual stuff on us. Conspiracy theories only, if you please.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">that's because added time is a 'minimum of [amount of added time] added'.

not 'that's all your having regardless of any time wasting tactics and injuries that happened.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So how come no premier league managers can grasp this simple point?

ONe point made here which I think is reasonable is that the AI monitors the human better than the human monitors the AI.

ie AI knows immediately you chnage tactic but the human needs to notice this - if you ar eplaying key highlights first time you notice may be in a play that leads to a goal to the AI.

This is not a cheat - and of course if were were willing to play all games out at normal time we could counter it.,

I would be interested to know if the programming does allow the AI to see chnages imemdiately or if there is a delay built in.

The thing that's annoying is that it shouldn't be "the AI" though, should it?

You're supposed to be pitting your wits against DIFFERENT managers, of different abilities, tactical knowledge and personality, to say nothing of basic differences in intelligence.

FM is more like playing a collective consciousness, where all the managers use the same tactics as soon as they need to get out of a jam, and they can all see through your tactics regardless of their ability and the ability of their team.

Furthermore, just because they *can* see through what you're doing doesn't mean they should automatically be able to combat it if you're the better team, playing to your strengths.

In reality it's not like that, is it. Some lesser teams who - for example - only aim to survive in the Premiership would be quite happy merely to lose 1-0 to a big club away from home in the league, whereas in this they all go for it if you're the big club, regardless of the supposed mentality of the manager concerned.

And they nearly ALL switch to the same 4-2-4, even if they never normally use a formation remotely like it.

The telling thing to me is that, whenever I've watched a match as a spectator with two AI teams playing, they hardly ever switch formations in the same manic, gung-ho way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jose-Maria Felicidad:

The thing that's annoying is that it shouldn't be "the AI" though, should it?

You're supposed to be pitting your wits against DIFFERENT managers, of different abilities, tactical knowledge and personality, to say nothing of basic differences in intelligence.

FM is more like playing a collective consciousness, where all the managers use the same tactics as soon as they need to get out of a jam, and they can all see through your tactics regardless of their ability and the ability of their team.

Furthermore, just because they *can* see through what you're doing doesn't mean they should automatically be able to combat it if you're the better team, playing to your strengths.

In reality it's not like that, is it. Some lesser teams who - for example - only aim to survive in the Premiership would be quite happy merely to lose 1-0 to a big club away from home in the league, whereas in this they all go for it if you're the big club, regardless of the supposed mentality of the manager concerned.

And they nearly ALL switch to the same 4-2-4, even if they never normally use a formation remotely like it.

The telling thing to me is that, whenever I've watched a match as a spectator with two AI teams playing, they hardly ever switch formations in the same manic, gung-ho way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't say it better myself.Ah at last someone who sees this problem as a 'bug' rather than an active part of the gameplay.

I am quite perplexed to know that two AI teams playing against each will play in a completely different way than when you play the AI. I am I am in complete agreement regarding the feeling that your are playing against the 'COMPUTER' rather than undividual teams, redargless of the level of ability for staff to players. Management games of the past used to play based on the strength of your team (staff to players) but FM seems to be getting completely lost in the tactics and I am afraid this could be the beginning of the end of FM. Its got to the stage that you cannot play the way you prefer or did in the previous versions of the game. I have been testing for month or so based on the odds of winning and losing on new 8.0.2 patch and found i the underdog will alwyas have a better chance of beating you depite the pre match odds.

Tactics are taking away the fun of finding a young gem in the market and watching him grow and winning games on his (a la Gerrard) but if your tactics per opposition aren't absolutly spot on, you be lucky to scrape a draw let alone a win.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bullybeef:

Tactics are taking away the fun of finding a young gem in the market and watching him grow and winning games on his (a la Gerrard) but if your tactics per opposition aren't absolutly spot on, you be lucky to scrape a draw let alone a win. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have only two tactics, home and away. I have won the league 4 times, the CL and the cups a number of time. My squad average age is 24 and I have brought through a number of young players for 100k and sold them for millions.

I never change the tactic depending on opposition, it is changed depending on venue.

Please stop crying bug when it is obviously a pitfall of your own poor management.

I'm pretty much the same. 1 tactic with minor home/away variations fits all. Generally I just switch Counter attacking on and bump the Mentality slider (and often the temp slider) down to the middle or lower for away games, but make no other changes and very very rarely do I tailor my tactic to the opposition. One time I did I tailored it spectacularly wrongly!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">when I am (Liverpool) leading 2-0 against 10 men everton can any concievable tactic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunatley for yourself this is definately not a bug, i have many times bombarded their goal and been up one maybe two nil when my opponents, go a man down, and suddenly they come back and draw the game or possibly even beat me. One thing i know for a fact this is my tactics because i "conquered" (sp?) my ten manned opponents when changing my tactics. Fair to say i could not remember what i changed it to, to win but that was one of the best moments for me.

So unfortunately to protect the lead it is simply practice making perfect and most importantly when you do win remember what you did it helps trust me.

Surely if the game cheats you would lose every game?

It does seem a little suspicious to me that after 80 mins of total domination, 10+ shots on target, 20+ scoring chances against a sub-average team, suddently your opponents all put on their blue suits with a big, red S printed on the chest and start flying around the pitch at double their normal pace/acceleration, never loosing a tackle or header anymore, always anticipating your players on every ball and scoring from every possible angle...

Luckily this usually happens during the last 10 mins, when the AI switches to 4-2-4, so it can be countered, but it smells "a little" of buffed up stats cheating nonetheless.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by psword:

It does seem a little suspicious to me that after 80 mins of total domination, 10+ shots on target, 20+ scoring chances against a sub-average team, suddently your opponents all put on their blue suits with a big, red S printed on the chest and start flying around the pitch at double their normal pace/acceleration, never loosing a tackle or header anymore, always anticipating your players on every ball and scoring from every possible angle...

Luckily this usually happens during the last 10 mins, when the AI switches to 4-2-4, so it can be countered, but it smells "a little" of buffed up stats cheating nonetheless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wish i was tlking balony, I would of won !!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phnompenhandy:

With such a great title, this thread should become the repository for ALL the conspiracy theorists and incompetent idiots who blame the game rather than look at their own inadequacies. That would leave the rest of us to ignore just the one thread and respond to the people open to sane discussion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well my 2 pence worth is this....I've just played Juve as Liverpool in the CL. I had 25 shots, 16 on target and they had none. It finished 0-0 with their keeper MotM. I have a goal disallowed, but when you look back on the replay, there are 3 out field players playing Aguero onside so i think i'll complain, but i now have a touchline ban as it says the replay showed the ref to be right when it blatantly didn't!!

Another thing is i'm winning games 2-1 most of the time and they're all with me hitting the target 20-30 times and the opposition getting 1 shot 1 goal. I AM reacting to changes straight away, i'm NOT going all out attack EVER and go defensive in the last 15-10 mins.

Most of the problems i'm getting have been there for many versions, my world class finishing 20, composure 18 etc... striker can't score with 8 shots on target yet someone with finishing 8 scores with one shot (Nasri) EVERYtime!! and no they're not tap in's. Or my towering CB with heading and jumping of 18 gets beaten in the air 9 times out of 10 by a short ar*e striker.

Anyone tried singling out a very slow CB with a rapid CF? Needless to say it doesn't work, he'll get out paced.

And bullybeef, the staff are useless, i've had scouts of 20 judging ability tell me Aguero is a last resort and my ass man tell me that i should offload Bojan asap! not to mention asking my team 'why can't you play like this every match' when they've just struggled to beat a conference side at home 1-0.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RiisesLeftFoot:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phnompenhandy:

With such a great title, this thread should become the repository for ALL the conspiracy theorists and incompetent idiots who blame the game rather than look at their own inadequacies. That would leave the rest of us to ignore just the one thread and respond to the people open to sane discussion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well my 2 pence worth is this....I've just played Juve as Liverpool in the CL. I had 25 shots, 16 on target and they had none. It finished 0-0 with their keeper MotM. I have a goal disallowed, but when you look back on the replay, there are 3 out field players playing Aguero onside so i think i'll complain, but i now have a touchline ban as it says the replay showed the ref to be right when it blatantly didn't!!

Another thing is i'm winning games 2-1 most of the time and they're all with me hitting the target 20-30 times and the opposition getting 1 shot 1 goal. I AM reacting to changes straight away, i'm NOT going all out attack EVER and go defensive in the last 15-10 mins.

Most of the problems i'm getting have been there for many versions, my world class finishing 20, composure 18 etc... striker can't score with 8 shots on target yet someone with finishing 8 scores with one shot (Nasri) EVERYtime!! and no they're not tap in's. Or my towering CB with heading and jumping of 18 gets beaten in the air 9 times out of 10 by a short ar*e striker.

Anyone tried singling out a very slow CB with a rapid CF? Needless to say it doesn't work, he'll get out paced.

And bullybeef, the staff are useless, i've had scouts of 20 judging ability tell me Aguero is a last resort and my ass man tell me that i should offload Bojan asap! not to mention asking my team 'why can't you play like this every match' when they've just struggled to beat a conference side at home 1-0. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've certainly be there. you're not alone .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stumostro:

Surely if the game cheats you would lose every game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Logic?? You want to use logic??

Out!!

The tactics side of the game appears to be the be all and end all of winning games.This is why it doesnt matter wheather you have better players or not.

The big problem for me is that,if you get the tactics just slighty wrong,your team can get totally outplayed.This is also why,when your team is in control for 80 mins of a game,once the other team gets the tactic right,it can the often draw and win games,it had previously been outplayed in.

IRL tactics are fairly simple,its the players that make the difference.Tactics may give you more of the ball,a more attacking game,over a defensive one,but the skills of the players are the most important factor.

Why would your striker with 20 finishing not score more times than one with 8?Why does your defender get outpaced when he has 20 for pace over someone with 8 pace?Tactics wouldnt give the edge to the lesser player,whatever they were.

But if you coach IRL, you know that you have to match your tactics to your players' abilities and the threats posed by your opponents, or you're going to have a long, long season.

In FM, players often fail to perform as expected because of the instructions they've been given. What needs to change in the game is a clearer understanding of what instruction yields what result.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IRL tactics are fairly simple,its the players that make the difference.Tactics may give you more of the ball,a more attacking game,over a defensive one,but the skills of the players are the most important factor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that were true, there would be far fewer upsets than there actually are. In every sport, players regarded as inferior combine to defeat players regarded as superior. I offer this years American Super Bowl as Exhibit A.

What im saying is tactics can give you more control of a game,if they are right,but stats should come into play more often.

Team A has got the better tactics over team B.

Team A might have more of the ball,and create more chances.

But team As forwards have worse pace etc,than team Bs defenders,and they also have bad finishing Attributes.

Now in FM08,because the tactics of team A are "the right tactics" they win the game!

IRL although team A might have good control of a game,their strikers would struggle to score or outpace the defence.

Thats why the attributes of the players should play more of a role,instead of just the tactics.

oh yes same thing happened to me i (Mk Dons)was up 3-0 against Man Utd (4th ronud FA Cup) in the first half only to lose the game 3-4 in the last 5mins of the game i mean the game clock was at 85min + 5 mins of injury time and pen been the the winning goal.

I was winning 6-0 after 40 minutes and the opposition came back and the game ended 6-5. Such things dont happen IRL and couldnt happen to my team but the AI manages to do so. Dont say its my tactics because apart from that match I conceded about 10 goals all season and I was also undefeated in the league and won every competition I was in.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DS:

I was winning 6-0 after 40 minutes and the opposition came back and the game ended 6-5. Such things dont happen IRL and couldnt happen to my team but the AI manages to do so. Dont say its my tactics because apart from that match I conceded about 10 goals all season and I was also undefeated in the league and won every competition I was in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could also argue that being 6-0 up after 40mins is unrealistic.

One of the most fundamental points that is never raised re: realism is that people are asking for a game in which they can take Southport into the Champions League within 10 seasons but at the same time produce realistic scorelines etc.

Essentially this is a game, not a simulation and because of this there are going to be discrepencies and tasks that however unrealistic are totally realistic in the context of a video game.

I haven't encountered a majority of the "bugs" that have ben raised here and tbh wouldn't consider them bugs but occasional blips. For example DS says it isn't his tactics because he has had great success otherwise yet is infering that 6-0 to 6-5 may be cause for concern with the game. It happened once in at least 34 games, to me that doesn't say bug but does say blip.

The same example further backs up my original point that realism is difficult to find in a game and especially within reason for it's players. 6-0 to 6-5 YES it is unrealistic but is going all season unbeaten, concedeing only 10 goals and winning every competition just as unrealistic?

Nomis - very good points ref realism etc -i'm trying to play a few more serious games

myself as I used to be very much a 'win everything or quit' sort of player and

hated losing to the dodgy AI!

I used to hate the fact that crap teams could beat me in the FA cup and all my players with

20 attribs got outplayed by rank outsiders - look at the weekends FA cup games - it happens.

Last nights Euro games ... Everton essentially annhialated Fiorentina yet lost on penalties.

Must admit I have no 'set' tactic as such and find that sometimes against certain teams/formations

my usual 442 just doesn't work - so I adjust it.

The only gripe I really have about the AI in this current version is the use of more bizarre formations -

Man U are using the 4231 thingy and they are basically untouchable atm and Rooney is ridiculous. Chelsea also use a 42211 thing and again its impossible to match. These are the issues I have when the settings used must be so critical to the way these formations work yet are almost impossible to fathom as a human player. On 'paper' they just shouldn't work but somehow do

Drambuie

Agreed. I'm not trying to say the game is realisitic, it definately isn't. The problem I see is that a lot of players have an idea of realism in their head that is totally unobtainable. I love the game but my only gripe with it is that to play a realistic tactic is extremely difficult and to operate a club realistically is undoable.

Personally if I manage a lower club I never sign a player that I think I wouldn't be able to sign in real life and I continue to do this as I progress through the leagues. I implement a wage structure, which means that I have a target that I will never go over and have a highest wage that I will never go over, no matter who the player is. I limit what I spend on players to a realistic target, I had 60m to spend last season adn 90m to spend this season as Bayern Munich and I have spent 7m each year because I think spending 60 or 90 is ridiculous, likewise I would not sign Aguero because I don't think there's a chnace in hell he'd move to Munich IRL.

I have tried many times to replicate the type of tactic and ootball I would use/play if I was a real manager but they never ever work and essentially I end up designing a tactic that does work but isn't how I would set out a team for real. Why do I do this, because it's a game and the objective is winning not realism. I try to keep it as realistic as possible but because of the frailties in the nature of a computer game i'm limited in how far I can do this.

Yes Man Utd and Chelsea are very difficult to beat in the game but tbh I have beaten them (after years of trying in the CL) because I adapted to what I needed to win, not because I thought it was right.

Sometimes I try a game where I just go with the flow and in my recent Wigan game I had Aguero, Akinfeev, Fernandes, Breno and Van Der Vaart with money to spare and CL football. Is that any more or any less unrealistic than being beaten by a team playing 4-2-4?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was winning 6-0 after 40 minutes and the opposition came back and the game ended 6-5. Such things dont happen IRL and couldnt happen to my team but the AI manages to do so. Dont say its my tactics because apart from that match I conceded about 10 goals all season and I was also undefeated in the league and won every competition I was in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It happens. If you changed your tactics at half time (as the AI team surely did) you would not have conceded 5. When I'm leading comfortably at half-time I always switch to a slower passing tempo for the second half with counter-attacking ticked.

All these "AI Cheats" threads can be answered with "It's your tactics". Sorry, conspiracy chaps, but the number of people who have countered these issues by either tweaking their own tactics or visiting the tactics forum for advice show just how obviously wrong these comments are (that's all "cheating" comments, not just the ones quoted here).

Key advice: watch the match in split-screen so you can see the opposition's formations. When it piles forward or goes defensive, you KNOW to adjust your own, ie, when the AI goes 424 you go ultra defensive, and deep etc, and when a 1-0 up AI goes to a defensive formation, you know you need to change (I usually go short passing, attack-minded... works usually due to possession football and attacking mentality).

More advice: in the tactics forum.