Why am I not a very good FM player? [Long]

I've been an FM player since CM07/08 and I've just realised that ... well, I'm not really very good.

I play a mixture of games, managing Premier League, Championship and below. I've travelled the world and worked for long periods in the USA, continental Europe, South Africa, even at a second division Croatian team 10 years into an FM08 game. I've won major trophies: the EPL a few times, the Dutch, Scottish and French leagues, a few domestic cup and a couple of UEFA cups. All of these are with teams that would be expected to achieve results not much worse than that. I've won a few promotions but also got the sack quite a few times.

I'm not awful, but I'm really not very good and I don't know why. It seems most people here achieve much greater success than me, even if quite a few are lying and/or cheating.

1. Transfers

I am active in the transfer world and will always deal big and small. I get a few bargains, but I also get a few players I expect to be excellent but who flop. On the whole, I'm probably below average on the transfer market. I typically scout players a few times but I never go and watch a match in person - I don't see the point as you can't tell how good he unless you watch him loads and that's too boring. I rarely make a profit over all but then the teams I play as usually don't need to. One weakness is I tend to sell players very cheap when I decide I no longer need them, I should probably be more patient. I probably believe the visible stats over the scout reports to be honest, not that I really understand their relationship with CA and how good at a stat a player actually is. I've come across a lot of players who scouts aren't too impressed with but who are clearly worth considering and who often do work out, while the scouts can highly rate someone who I expect to flop and who does. Basically, despite high scouting stats, they seem more interested in reputation and value than actual skill. I probably tend to have a fairly young squad.

2. Back room

I always get a strong back room. One of the first things I do is try to fire any below average members of staff and then go on a hiring spree, some times as many as the board allow me. The best coaches, physios and scouts that I can get!

3. Training

I seem to get the training section looking well. The training areas have high star ratings and low workloads. I don't really see the effect of training - stats go up, but I don't actually know if they are going up any faster or slower than if I hadn't touched training at all.

4. Pre-Match Day

I'll usually receive a scout report on my next opponent and pick the team then. I usually counter-attack against stronger teams and try to dominate possession against weaker ones. I'd rotate a bit, particularly the weaker players of course but the team from week to week doesn't change much. I generally only pick the fittest players if the squad has many at < 95 condition on match day. I'll put tired star players on the bench, if they have > 80, otherwise the bench will all be as fit as I can make it.

I don't base the team or tactics on the opposition much, I tend to pick players based on position, fitness and quality, in that order, I don't pick especially to exploit the opposition. I wouldn't know how.

5. Match Day

With careful subs I typically have some cover for any position except nets. I quite frequently don't pick a sub keeper, especially in competitions with fewer subs like the FA Cup. The gamble has only gone bad a few times and has yet to cost me a result. I don't think my team talks are very successful - I don't really know what the options actually mean much of the time. Some team talks work and I've turned matches around on it, but not many.

I don't change formation during matches unless forced to by injury or in a desperate situation. If I was playing attacking football, playing well and went 1-0 up, I wouldn't go defensive because I figure if this system is working well enough to get to 1-0, it shouldn't be fiddled with. I remember being told that the disruption of the change virtually negates any advantage a new formation may have had.

Goals at both end come from crosses, long shots, scrambles, dead balls, neat interplay. I don't have an obvious weak area (at least not that I can see), I tend to concede a lot of all sorts. Perhaps I'm most vulnerable on crosses but not by much. On the whole I'd say I'd concede slightly more than I should and score a fair bit less than I should. I tend to get one player score an unusually large portion of the goals.

6. Media

I do quite well, normally pleasing more of my players than those I disappoint, and vice versa for opponent teams. I've never really managed to unsettle a player I want beyond him being unhappy about bids being turned down - no absences, no transfer requests.

7. Youngsters

I very rarely find young players and grow them into first team regulars. In my 11 years of playing, there has never been a single player who has really gone from youngster to world class. I've had a few mild successes but really, pretty dismal.

8. Finances

I often get the finances under better control and cut the wage budget. I occasionally over-pay a flop or regret giving as long as contract to someone as I did, but I think I run a pretty tight ship overall.

What am I doing wrong? Should I attend matches I'm not a part of to see players and watch formations? I should spend a bit more time checking my opponents and picking a formation and the players to counter threats and exploit weaknesses, but I generally don't see anything. Do I just suck?

I think you have largely summed up the average FM experience.

No idea is the short answer.

The long answer is: we don't think anyone has any idea. They just 'guestimate' and it works, so they tell everyone that works.

The truth is, before you even kick a ball the result is largely decided for some of the time, and entirely ruthlessly random the rest. Be it form, morale or media. What a lot of us want is a return to a CM type scenario where, barring obvious exploits, you are able to dictate the way you play rather than being forced to respond to the way the AI plays and to remove all this absurd external influence; be it team talks, media comments that make no sense and repeat themselves endlessly or just plain not getting involved. Whilst I laud the merits of FM in terms of challenge, in reality it is a punitive system, entirely biased against the player and in being so expects you to react to it, not vice versa. The truth here, I feel, is that the game is too confused and has too many elements which contribute to your results that have nothing to do with actually playing the matches. It makes it nigh impossible for an average intelligence/experience person to read a game, since you don't know what is making players do what they do. Surprisingly infrequently its your tactics: the rest of time? Roll a dice. Could be anything. The short answer to this problem is not to bother with team talks, OI's, praise or criticism, press conferences or tactics and just put your best 11 out. When you get to this point or any compromise scenario in-between, you realize the one simple and infuriating truth about FM: it plays itself.

We're not allowed (any more) to play the game, we're only allowed to interact within its environment. Because some of us cheated the ME, that aspect was effectively lobotomised in favour of an overwhelming number of random variables which we are supposed to believe reflects the fallibility of real football management. The truth is: most of us played the game, not the match engine and sincere non-exploitative play was just as enjoyable. Now that's been replaced with banal and frankly anal micro management that, despite itself, feels redundant and entirely random. Delivering, in short, all the satisfaction of a soggy egg salad sandwich.

^I tend to agree, if you cannot enjoy the game then either try everything you can possibly do to get better at it, quit it or cheat your way to the top if this makes it enjoyable.

I can win almost anything and get quite good results, but I still find the game to be way to random now, best FM for me was probably 06(my first one) .

First of all, great post. It is great to see such honesty in the forums for a change.

Secondly, as I was reading through, I was relating to about 95% over the details you wrote, and I am in evry much the same position as you!

Here are my thoughts, hopefully you can find at least a few of them helpful.

1. Transfers

I am active in the transfer world and will always deal big and small. I get a few bargains, but I also get a few players I expect to be excellent but who flop.

Same here. 1 thing I have learnt is that, when dealing with a world class star, you need to experiment a little with tactics. Then when you have found something that works (no matter how tedious that may be), make your other team adjustments around this star guy (particularly if he is AMC, for example.

2. Back room

I always get a strong back room. One of the first things I do is try to fire any below average members of staff and then go on a hiring spree, some times as many as the board allow me. The best coaches, physios and scouts that I can get!

Again, same here! but I have read in other threads that there is not as much impact as you would expect. Changing the coaches to ones with excellent stats does not always have the results you would expect.

3. Training

I seem to get the training section looking well. The training areas have high star ratings and low workloads. I don't really see the effect of training - stats go up, but I don't actually know if they are going up any faster or slower than if I hadn't touched training at all.

I don't really mess with training. I have always been very unimpressed with the effects, no matter which schedules I use

5. Match Day

I don't change formation during matches unless forced to by injury or in a desperate situation.

Here, I would suggest you make a lot more changes during matches. Even if it something small, like swapping your 2 strikers around to confuse the opposition defense a little. Or slightly adjusting the individual sliders. I find this can make a difference during games.

7. Youngsters

I very rarely find young players and grow them into first team regulars. In my 11 years of playing, there has never been a single player who has really gone from youngster to world class. I've had a few mild successes but really, pretty dismal.

Totally the same as you here! I can't offer you advice here, sorry I am just letting you know that the EXACT SAME happens to me. I often find myself buying wonderkids at age 20, who have already developed at other clubs, because I cannot get hot prospects to do the same in my team

Do I just suck?

If you think you do, then I also suck