AI Managers and squad development needs work

After running alot of tests it seems AI managers stats dont really represent there true values IRL, Using the editor i changed the top 4 clubs managers and swoped them with lessor managers and teams..

After running the game many time's end result was always the same, top 4 would be top 4, and the lower teams would always be low even with top managers.

IRL how Can Villa and Everton be where they are in the league but in FM out of 5 season's i can't get either of them two teams to finish any where near the top 6/8 places. is this because the players are not valued properly or is it the managers stats not valued in a sence that makes there teams play well??

Also in conjunction with this, why dont these clubs or managers build to keep there club at the same level it is or try to improve to move onto better thing's? every one knows the AI teams just let there team age and never rebuild it and FM has been like this even going back to the CM days.. why hasn't this been addressed?

Interesting beacuse even just through the normal course of the game, Liverpool and Chelsea have both finished outside the top 6 for me.

I've not got far enough in FM09 to see what the league tables are myself, but other people have reported that there are a totally new "big 4" in say 2030.

What proof do you have from your "extensive" testing?

not alot becuase my save file wouldnt load because i deleted my own edited data base, it wouldnt load with any of the 3 standerd ones..

i do remember the top 4 teasm where top 4 by over 15 points from team in 5th every season..

but my issue was with managers and there stats and does it allow them to be as effective in Fm as IRL? i dont think so!! what do you think? and you must of seen or read about AI teams getting older and older with out any attempt to bring threw younger talent?

P.s i havnt been beyond 5 season's but by changing the managers that i did, you would of expected a noticible differance at least one season.. If i took Fergie and sent him to League 2 and gave a league 2 manager his job, Man U still win or finish top 4..

Not seeing that as a huge problem myself.

Long term games do have several issues, but it's a vast improvement on FM08s career games.

The big four move around all the time for me in 2013.

Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal are all free spending; only Man U are not, and that's probably due to their debt. On the other hand, Man City have won nothing and Mark Hughes still has a job, so I suppose that's another issue altogether.

Which managers are you putting in the top jobs? If it's other Prem managers then it's probably not that bad an issue. If you're bringing in, say, L2 managers then it's probably worth SI looking at.

try it for your self and see what you get? just change the top managers jobs with lower managers and see what happens if you let it run on holiday for 1 season..

iv done this over 5 times and it's always the same.

So you've only done it for one season?

try it for your self and see what you get? just change the top managers jobs with lower managers and see what happens if you let it run on holiday for 1 season..

iv done this over 5 times and it's always the same.

I've figured out your problem - I'd like you to check the detail level of the English Premier League. If it's at None, then the game will rely on the reputation of the clubs rather than the ability of the manager - which means Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and co. will always be at the top and Stoke, Hull and co. will always be at the bottom.

If it's on full detail, then SI need to look at it.

For squad development by the AI to occur, there does need a fundamental change making.

From the 09 press releases SI have said AI managers draw up a list of wanted players + alternatives, they also need to have a smaller "future team players" shortlist

the players on this for the future list, would be players who are brought to the club to replace senior players as they decline/retire

AI managers also need to be more rigouros in thier assesment of thier current senior squad, basing it not just on PA, but also CA, recent form and age. They should make free use of the status options such as Rotation and Back Up, and those changes need to be tied to the assesment method (this should prevent 30yr old+ players with large differences in ca/pa being treated as good options)

well iv just created two managers the same, and gave then the hot seat at West Ham and Newcastle.. i changed both clubs reps to 9000 just behind Man U and gave them a large transfer fund and wage allowance..

After season 1 Newcastle broke into the top 4 knocking Chelsea into 5th while West Ham finished 6th..

I made both managers super good at 200 ability etc and gave them attacking mentalities, one majour differance was i gave the newcastle manager 20 for buying players and the West Ham Manager only 5 which is curently the same as Wenger in the game..

What this done was make Newcastle spend spend spend, while West Ham only bought 1 play in 12 months.. It seems these managers super stats have made there teams get good results as im hoping the Newcastle Manager will continue to buy alot of good players as they still have 100's of millions to spend..

i'm now running it for a 2nd season to see if these 2 clubs can push forward in such a short time.. this is the 1st time i have seen the top 4 breached by another team..

Chelsea got relegated on my game in 2012/2013....would never happen IRL

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2796/53145858gi2.jpg

Chelsea got relegated on my game in 2012/2013....would never happen IRL

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2796/53145858gi2.jpg

probably because there squad aged and they never replaced the players with world class one's

running another test, Wenger at Newcastle with 150 mill to spend, won the title in 1st season, accrington stanley manager was at Arsenal and they finished 4th..

Villa got relegated in 1st season. now that is pathetic considering O'Neil and villa this year. i find O'Niel always end up going abroad on my game. Italy, Holland, Spain.

If it's at None, then the game will rely on the reputation of the clubs rather than the ability of the manager

Where did you get this information, as I don't believe it to be true.

Where did you get this information, as I don't believe it to be true.

I'm sure that it's something along those lines - maybe somebody from SI can confirm what the detail level really does mean.

Skorp has said before that the only difference between the quick match engine and the full match engine (which detail level determines) is processing speed and the production of watchable highlights.

Skorp has said before that the only difference between the quick match engine and the full match engine (which detail level determines) is processing speed and the production of watchable highlights.

yes i done a test the other week about processing and the amount of leagues etc, some one said detail level is mearly how full match results get calculated. ie, full match with highlights or fast match no highlights, but the results will not change..

yes i done a test the other week about processing and the amount of leagues etc' date=' some one said detail level is mearly how full match results get calculated. ie, full match with highlights or fast match no highlights, but the results will not change..[/quote']

Ah, I wasn't aware at - my apologies.

Thanks for the notification.

SI needs to take a bit of a look at things regarding the AI then - some situations are horribly unrealistic (i.e. Aston Villa relegated)

It's more to do with the match engine than just the manager AI.

And (my Villa fan best friend will hate me saying this) with a few injuries and a bad string of results it's not totally unlikely that Villa could have had a nightmare season, they've not exactly got massive squad depth or players that in game have high attributes.

I think there's possibly some tweaking to be done, but I've not found it to be a major issue so far.

It's more to do with the match engine than just the manager AI.

And (my Villa fan best friend will hate me saying this) with a few injuries and a bad string of results it's not totally unlikely that Villa could have had a nightmare season, they've not exactly got massive squad depth or players that in game have high attributes.

I think there's possibly some tweaking to be done, but I've not found it to be a major issue so far.

i think your right it's not majour, as a Liverpool fan id love to see O'neil at the pool!! doubt it will happen, IRL i think O'Neil is proven to be a great motivator if not tactitian!!!... im currently playing with his manager stats in my editor to try and boost his own ability to make Villa a top 6 team most season's...

there has definately been alot of time spent making the top 4 be top 4 90% of the time, but i think may be less time was spent making sure other teams are = to there worth IRL..

I was pleased to see Wenger win the title with Newcastle in his first season when i ran a test, im wondering if Arsenal are so great in the game because of the way Wenger's manager stats are set up according to the match engine. i may mirror his stats and create 5 managers alike and see what out come they all have in different leagues etc.

one stat i did find out was the hidden stat buying players, the higher the no the more players the manager will sign..

I feel that the AI needs to be smarter in buying players to fit the team.

Have you seen Arsenal on this game? Evidently not.

Have you seen Arsenal on this game? Evidently not.

what do you mean by that mate? i agree they are good yes, if not better. i think it may be down to Wenger stats...!!

From what i have read on here, and seen for many years. when players get old, these AI teams dont rebuild with youth and have a balanced squad as time go by.. what do you think Sciag?

I agree with that, but you can't say manager attributes don't matter, which was my point!

I seem to have misread your last but one post though.

You're slightly out on the buying players attribute btw, it also affects quality and value of signings. With a lot of cash and a high "buying players" attribute, a lot of money will be wasted- this is the problem with Man City (the "offer to clubs for £40m and Man City stupidly bid for average player" bug).

It always occurs on FM that the human managers get to the best young regens, though tbf we know when they spawn. I think AI managers should be encouraged to buy young prospects more often.

oh i see. so WEnger having a 5 for buying players is actually a good stat? i best take alook at what these managers are buying in my test

Well, sort of. It's situational really. A bit like eccentricity for goalkeepers. In some scenarios (weak squad, not a lot of money) a higher attribute would be useful. But with more money and a strong enough squad, a lower attribute is useful.

I suggest an experiment like this:

Manager 1: Buying Players 20

Manager 2: Buying Players 1

One at Chelsea, the other at United. Give them the same budgets.

Then (could be run simultaneously to save time):

Manager A: Buying 20

Manager B: Buying 1

Set as managers of two BSN/S clubs, with little money.

Rinse and repeat. I'm sure you can think of some other comparisons

Maybe buying players could be a fixed variable for some experiments?

well in the ealier test run the newcastle manager signed alot of players, but the West Ham manager did not, after 3 season's West Ham eventually got the upper hand, may be it was just a one off moment, by then i wanted to test somthing else out so i ended it.

The West Ham manager had the lower of the buying stats, what i did notice, despite changing the manager. West Ham did opt to buy the same player. Savio a German AML, ..