your losing your customers

runied, seriously how have si messed up a great game, they have had the hints for the last few years that it was too hard, now they have lost another customer

whats the point in buying the next one, do they listen to the feedback from their customers, i loved this game since i was 13 i am now 28 and have not missed one, this game was great, it was easy to get into, you could build a successful time - it had enough challenge

07 - too hard for me, i luckily discovered these forums, my mates had enough of the game and stopped buying

08 - way too hard, relied on these to get something out of the game, but i didnt enjoy it half as much

09 - i have tried and tried to get into this game, nothing works, no tactics, every month i come back to it, give it another go but i get nowhere

the appeal with this game was the ease to get into it, and applying simple football concepts and building a succesful side, i was a teenager when i got into it and liked the challenge - and repeatedly bought the game year on year

now this game is impossible, you have to be a tactical genious and have loads of time on your hands

where is your repeat custom going to come from , people will buy this and discard this, especially when avid fans have had enough

where is the normal level, not this ridiculous super hard level - please please sort it out

the appeal with this game was the ease to get into it

I thought it was the realism.

I have had back to back promotions (Giulianova from Serie C2A to B), cup wins (Italian Serie C cup), job offers from better clubs, offers from national teams...

I don't understand what the poster is on about. Maybe you're just not very good at the game?

I have had back to back promotions (Giulianova from Serie C2A to B), cup wins (Italian Serie C cup), job offers from better clubs, offers from national teams...

I don't understand what the poster is on about. Maybe you're just not very good at the game?

maybe i am not, but i have never had any problems until 07, when all the other moaning started, and im not the only one - hence all the moaning threads on here

what are si sales figures, now they have a fantastic brand and image built up, so that could account for a lot of sales, but what are their repeat sales like, are they loasing loads of old customers year on year? more than expected through people growing out of the game and doing other things in their spare time

now i watch footie and can have a good discussion on it, and feel i know what i am talking about, but when i use basic football common sense on here - it dont get me anywhere

I have had back to back promotions (Giulianova from Serie C2A to B), cup wins (Italian Serie C cup), job offers from better clubs, offers from national teams...

I don't understand what the poster is on about. Maybe you're just not very good at the game?

Ohhhh no you eh-eeehhhhnt!!!

Agreed. I have bought and played the game every year. I agree that they are getting tougher but that is a good thing!! If it was easy then what would be the challenge?! If you really work at it you can have success and it feels so much more rewarding.

Where is the evidence that customers have been lost?

08,i did crack it with tactics.I made the grade in Iris league,came to Newcastle and got them out of relegation zone.

09,starting to get hang of it and doing well.

09 - i have tried and tried to get into this game, nothing works, no tactics, every month i come back to it, give it another go but i get nowhere

now this game is impossible, you have to be a tactical genious and have loads of time on your hands

No offense but did you try out some threads on these forums?

Like this one?

You can find more in thisthread, in post #3, scroll down a little bit.

If you tried this all, well then it is up to you to stop with the game.

I don't have much time my self (childern, wife, work) but still can manage to get a decent tactics to gain some succes.

I'm finding it enjoyable, I like having to get the right tactic and build my team around it and try to win things.

If this were a game where I would have to just pick a tactic and put a team out and expect to get results where is the fun in that?

To the OP:

I'm a similar age to yourself, and I too have been playing since the original "Domark" releases of Championship Manager, CM Italia, and the other leagues that followed. Before that it was BossV on my Sinclair 128k when I was much younger, but I digress.

When you look back to what was on offer back in the early 1990s, you can only be amazed by the difference in depth of what you can do in the game. Every year it does get a little bit more realistic, and the features are constantly refined. With that depth though, must come a bit more thought and a bit more patience.

Sure, it's easy to load up Tug's training and download this year's new "Oh look at me I've found the new Diablo" tactic and rape the game senseless, or just stick with the defaults in the game and get sacked 6 months into your season.

Or you could take the game in a whole different light.

Around about 2005 when major game engine switch came, the game did indeed become more difficult. Even seasoned players like me and you started to find it difficult to win easily, because we were brought up with the game being easy. Now you need to take things at a much slower pace, really think hard about it and in all honesty that doesn't guarantee you success. The patience needed is a lot more than before and I find myself taking 2-3x longer per season than I ever did in the old CM series.

The different light I was talking about basically is judging your success in real terms. If I was to take control of, for instance, Albion Rovers in Scottish Division 3 and take them to the top half of Division 1 and stay there, that would be success beyond all possible belief in real terms. If you were to do the same with a conference club it would be the same for England. And so on.

I used to always have a routine of 1st new game Rangers, 2nd new game Sampdoria, 3rd new game EPL champions, 4th new game Spanish league, 5th game Lower League Management. Nowadays I still stick to it, but I don't expect the same from my games as I would have. If I get Sampdoria intto Champions League for the 2nd season I'd consider it a rip roaring success. If I get Rangers to CL Quarter Finals, again a success where before you could win it in Season 1 or 2, which is totally unrealistic.

I'd agree that the increased difficulty of the game has caused some unrealism, where it's too easy to fail with a top quality squad at any level. Perhaps the AI needs a very small tweak to correct this, but the amount of rattles being thrown out of the pram by guys like yourself will serve no purpose to further developing the game.

Perhaps instead of a semi-rant on the forum, try a thought out letter voicing your opinion in a way that isn't blaming anyone, and throw in some constructive criticism about how you would like to see the game made better.

If you're not going to move on along with the game, you should concentrate your efforts on releasing an accurate current day mega-update for the 01/02 database so we can all play on that engine and win easily again ;-)

I'll also admit that this year's game is alot harder than previous FM's. I've had loads of success in previous games (e.g turning Ipswich into European champions year after year) but this one really has got me scratching my head. I've been sacked from 4 clubs now (4 seperate games) but that just spurs me on to try and get my tactics right and try and master this year's game. I'm gonna keep persisting until I get this right and no matter how hard SI makes their game, I'll still be pre-ordering the next game months before it comes out this year

They're making the Game more realistic and if you dont like fm07, 08 and 09 go back to Champ Man and all the previous Games if your not that happy

I've seen a lot of these posts and I'm growing tired of the reactions people give when someone is saying the game is too hard.

I agree, the OP isn't proposing things that should be changed in his opinion, but hey, come on. He has the right to say that the game is too hard in his opinion.

A lot of people come out with an answer like "when I take over at a real Scottish 3rd league team, I won't win all my games so it shouldn't happen in the game either".

Well of course I don't expect to win everything in the game, but the comparison with real life is a little too far in my opinion. It's a game!!! Wake up!! When I want to manage in real life, I would take a course and call my local soccer team. Being coach of Man United in the game should be fun, because that is what I am playing the game for. I do think for example that it would be a nice addition to create tactics in a faster and easier to test environment. As I have posted once before, some sort of wizard for people who want a quick start. And the people who want to control everything, there is still the possibility to slide everything in your favour.

I play FM 09, and although I think there is enough room for improvements, I am enjoying it a lot. But I think the game is hard to master and time consuming. I think there are a lot of fans who would praise some changes to make the game easier to handle. And I think that this is just the point of the OP. Not to make an easy game with some "diablo"-tactic, but to make it more accessible and faster playable.

To the OP:

I'm a similar age to yourself, and I too have been playing since the original "Domark" releases of Championship Manager, CM Italia, and the other leagues that followed. Before that it was BossV on my Sinclair 128k when I was much younger, but I digress.

When you look back to what was on offer back in the early 1990s, you can only be amazed by the difference in depth of what you can do in the game. Every year it does get a little bit more realistic, and the features are constantly refined. With that depth though, must come a bit more thought and a bit more patience.

Sure, it's easy to load up Tug's training and download this year's new "Oh look at me I've found the new Diablo" tactic and rape the game senseless, or just stick with the defaults in the game and get sacked 6 months into your season.

Or you could take the game in a whole different light.

Around about 2005 when major game engine switch came, the game did indeed become more difficult. Even seasoned players like me and you started to find it difficult to win easily, because we were brought up with the game being easy. Now you need to take things at a much slower pace, really think hard about it and in all honesty that doesn't guarantee you success. The patience needed is a lot more than before and I find myself taking 2-3x longer per season than I ever did in the old CM series.

The different light I was talking about basically is judging your success in real terms. If I was to take control of, for instance, Albion Rovers in Scottish Division 3 and take them to the top half of Division 1 and stay there, that would be success beyond all possible belief in real terms. If you were to do the same with a conference club it would be the same for England. And so on.

I used to always have a routine of 1st new game Rangers, 2nd new game Sampdoria, 3rd new game EPL champions, 4th new game Spanish league, 5th game Lower League Management. Nowadays I still stick to it, but I don't expect the same from my games as I would have. If I get Sampdoria intto Champions League for the 2nd season I'd consider it a rip roaring success. If I get Rangers to CL Quarter Finals, again a success where before you could win it in Season 1 or 2, which is totally unrealistic.

I'd agree that the increased difficulty of the game has caused some unrealism, where it's too easy to fail with a top quality squad at any level. Perhaps the AI needs a very small tweak to correct this, but the amount of rattles being thrown out of the pram by guys like yourself will serve no purpose to further developing the game.

Perhaps instead of a semi-rant on the forum, try a thought out letter voicing your opinion in a way that isn't blaming anyone, and throw in some constructive criticism about how you would like to see the game made better.

If you're not going to move on along with the game, you should concentrate your efforts on releasing an accurate current day mega-update for the 01/02 database so we can all play on that engine and win easily again ;-)

Quick question, what on earth is Tug's training and Diablo?

the bad thing is that the game isn't getting harder because its getting more realistic, its getting harder because the game mechanics are getting worse, including the match engine!

Quick question, what on earth is Tug's training and Diablo?

Tug's training is a very good training scheme which is made by Tug. You can download it in the tactics & training section of the forums.

Diablo was a tactic at CM 03/04 which exploited a flaw in the match engine. It used a AMC with a forward arrow to the central attack place. The defenders didn't know how to defend him because they marked the 2 central forwards so the AMC just walked unmarked to the goal, and while he was waving to the crowd, he only had to think which corner was easier to put the ball in.

We're just getting older and less good at games. I bet the kids are winning everything

Quick question, what on earth is Tug's training and Diablo?

tugs training is supposed to be a great training schedule, i prefer to make my own up tbh, just because i feel like im doing more,

i believe that diablo was a super tactic for older games where the gmae could be exploited and you would be almost invincible,

please correct me if im wrong

Never knew about either of those and been playing for the last 9 years, suppose maybe because i've never been on this till '09.

I've seen a lot of these posts and I'm growing tired of the reactions people give when someone is saying the game is too hard.

I agree, the OP isn't proposing things that should be changed in his opinion, but hey, come on. He has the right to say that the game is too hard in his opinion.

A lot of people come out with an answer like "when I take over at a real Scottish 3rd league team, I won't win all my games so it shouldn't happen in the game either".

Well of course I don't expect to win everything in the game, but the comparison with real life is a little too far in my opinion. It's a game!!! Wake up!! When I want to manage in real life, I would take a course and call my local soccer team. Being coach of Man United in the game should be fun, because that is what I am playing the game for. I do think for example that it would be a nice addition to create tactics in a faster and easier to test environment. As I have posted once before, some sort of wizard for people who want a quick start. And the people who want to control everything, there is still the possibility to slide everything in your favour.

I play FM 09, and although I think there is enough room for improvements, I am enjoying it a lot. But I think the game is hard to master and time consuming. I think there are a lot of fans who would praise some changes to make the game easier to handle. And I think that this is just the point of the OP. Not to make an easy game with some "diablo"-tactic, but to make it more accessible and faster playable.

no the OP is saying the game is impossible, which it clearly isnt. And he is saying anyone that buys it will not buy fm10 basically. I for one will be buying fm10 and the reason being, that fm is by far the best managment game available. hands down!

the OP is angry because he cant win anymore. just like everyone else who comes on here moaning!

have you noticed that the ones who moan all say the same things? "I shouldnt have to be a tactical genious!", "ive tried every tactic!", "its impossible!" blah blah blah.

Its not that hard. granted it is harder than last years. but that makes it all the more rewarding IMO

All i take from threads like this.

Is really no one has any idea what works.

I dont see any concious on what works.. Some people swear super simple stuff works and the TTF stuff didnt.. And vice versa.. Or just more patience whatever you doing will work sooner or later. Bla bla bla...

All i know is i lose and tie games i should be winning and still have no idea why

no the OP is saying the game is impossible, which it clearly isnt. And he is saying anyone that buys it will not buy fm10 basically. I for one will be buying fm10 and the reason being, that fm is by far the best managment game available. hands down!

the OP is angry because he cant win anymore. just like everyone else who comes on here moaning!

have you noticed that the ones who moan all say the same things? "I shouldnt have to be a tactical genious!", "ive tried every tactic!", "its impossible!" blah blah blah.

Its not that hard. granted it is harder than last years. but that makes it all the more rewarding IMO

You're being so ignorant here it isn't funny. The game is clearly flawed in several ways - just ask Ferguson which combination of sliders he uses!

I have no idea what the hell you are ranting on about, the game has not become harder and arguing that succeeding in the game should be easy is just plain stupid, not to mention unrealistic.

If you cannot stand your team losing, while at the same time not being the brightest of us online-manager-warriors there are plenty of ways to "cut some corners" built into the game.

Stop whining already and start using those then. Save us some forum space.

why am i being ignorant? thats what the OP said. correct me if im wrong?

name me a better manager game than this? Champ man? dont make me laugh!

I agree there are flaws. but none so big that it makes the game "impossible"

people come on here and complain that the game is bad because theyre crap at it. they want to join a club, put out 11 players and expect them to win all the time. no thanks. I had that with premier manager. I got bored after I won the quadruple 4 years running. just because I bought the best player for every position.

no the OP is saying the game is impossible, which it clearly isnt. And he is saying anyone that buys it will not buy fm10 basically. I for one will be buying fm10 and the reason being, that fm is by far the best managment game available. hands down!

the OP is angry because he cant win anymore. just like everyone else who comes on here moaning!

have you noticed that the ones who moan all say the same things? "I shouldnt have to be a tactical genious!", "ive tried every tactic!", "its impossible!" blah blah blah.

Its not that hard. granted it is harder than last years. but that makes it all the more rewarding IMO

Absolute rubbish! I managed to get Udinese into the Champions League in my second season, afaic that's succes, but I still think FM09 is crap. My win percentage is 57%, again, I consider this success, but I think FM09 is crap. Where do I fit into your opinion of moaners?

name me a better manager game than this? Champ man? dont make me laugh!

Being the best of a bad bunch isn't anything to be proud of.

I do hate it when people moan about the difficulty of the game and that there is no difficulty levels!

If they find the game too hard, why dont they go manage in the premiership in real life? im pretty sure they would go back to the game after just a couple days into the job!

Also when the chairman interviews you, just ask him what difficulty levels are available, im sure he will raise your transfer budget accordingly!

I find the game extremely hard and challenging- and i love it, if SI keep going im sure soon enough they will replicate the pressure and tasks of a real football manager.

We will then see how many people play the game and complain

why am i being ignorant? thats what the OP said. correct me if im wrong?

name me a better manager game than this? Champ man? dont make me laugh!

I agree there are flaws. but none so big that it makes the game "impossible"

people come on here and complain that the game is bad because theyre crap at it. they want to join a club, put out 11 players and expect them to win all the time. no thanks. I had that with premier manager. I got bored after I won the quadruple 4 years running. just because I bought the best player for every position.

Not true. I know exactly how to win in FM09. Unfortunately, that would mean me completely ditching the simulation idea and going for stupid exploits that have been around for years.

Just because there is no good competition (yet) does not mean that SI can make a half assed game and get away with it.

Just because there is no good competition (yet) does not mean that SI can make a half assed game and get away with it.

Yes it does.

See Microsoft Windows for details.

Yes it does.

See Microsoft Windows for details.

Ehm, Windows has competition, its just not good enough (or cheap enough in apple's case) to wrestle away the market share.

That being said, in no way should we be encouraging a company to make half assed games and release them year in, year out.

no the OP is saying the game is impossible, which it clearly isnt. And he is saying anyone that buys it will not buy fm10 basically. I for one will be buying fm10 and the reason being, that fm is by far the best managment game available. hands down!

the OP is angry because he cant win anymore. just like everyone else who comes on here moaning!

have you noticed that the ones who moan all say the same things? "I shouldnt have to be a tactical genious!", "ive tried every tactic!", "its impossible!" blah blah blah.

Its not that hard. granted it is harder than last years. but that makes it all the more rewarding IMO

You're right, he isn't saying exactly what I do. But I think someone who has played the game for such a long time and with a lot of enjoyment could be a little frustrated so you just have to read his words in another light.

Sometimes I am angry too because I lost a game that I should have won. But as I said, mastering tactics is hard in this game (if it wasn't, the shouldn't be any need of aa TT&F guide). When you don't master the tactics, you will loose. In my opinion, you will never have any success without mastering the tactics. I can imagine that people come "moaning" here about this, although I like some more constructive posts. The creators do have to know what exactly is unpleasing us. Only then the game can be improved and reach a little more state of perfection.

So I don't say that everybody should moan and no, he doesn't have tried every tactic (If he did, he will have an immediate cause why he did loose everything supposing he didn't use every tactic for a whole season). What we have to do is pointing out what improvements could be made to the game. You can't compare your situation to his situation so what is easy for you could be hard for someone else. And I think the game will be perfect when everyone enjoys it as much as I do and you do. (yes, that's impossible ).

Maybe there should be a difficulty level attached to the game so people can turn the difficulty down or simplify the management process to make the game more enjoyable to them.

Ehm, Windows has competition, its just not good enough

My point exactly.

ye but thats you wakers. I know how to create a decent tactic that works. as do the majority of others on these forums. I dont know about any exploits tbh.

I fail to see how this is a bad game?

you still havent told me why im ignorant wakers?

@Nomis, Sorry I was exaggerating for effect. It seems to be done many times on these forums. considering you think fm09 is crap you do come on these forums a lot. why not just call it a day with fm then?

the point i was making was, im sick of some people slagging every aspect of the game off because they cant win!

My point exactly.

so how does that make it right for SI to release a gradually decaying game every year?

Whinging isn't useful. Constructive posts and bug reports are.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

so how does that make it right for SI to release a gradually decaying game every year?

That's your opinion. Not everyones.

ye but thats you wakers. I know how to create a decent tactic that works. as do the majority of others on these forums. I dont know about any exploits tbh.

I fail to see how this is a bad game?

you still havent told me why im ignorant wakers?

@Nomis, Sorry I was exaggerating for effect. It seems to be done many times on these forums. considering you think fm09 is crap you do come on these forums a lot. why not just call a day with fm then?

thge point i was making was, im sick of some people slagging every aspect of the game off because they cant win!

Well, you ignore the bugs in the match engine, the problems with running some Euro leagues that make the game unplayable after a few seasons, the fact that the sliders system is completely unrealistic and vague, the fact that every AI manager resorts to the same tactical tricks in certain situations and so on. Seriously, there is a massive list of problems with the game, and instead of it getting shorter each year, problems remain unfixed and are just added to by semi-working or completely broken new 'features'

Sigh Why do everyone on the forum always think that his opinion of the game is the only good one. When someone tries to explain why he thinks some parts of the game should be looked at, the only words he gets is that if he thinks an older version is better, he should stick with that.

Well, it will take a long time before everyone lives in peace together

Sigh Why do everyone on the forum always think that his opinion of the game is the only good one. When someone tries to explain why he thinks some parts of the game should be looked at, the only words he gets is that if he thinks an older version is better, he should stick with that.

Because of http://www.arinmorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/20040319h.jpg

All teams irl lose games they should have won! It's called football and no team is guaranteed to win. And for me, being Man Utd or Chelsea and winning practically every game is no fun. I was really surprised to read this thread as I actually think FM09 is the easiest version for several years. I am managing Kidderminster Harriers and managed to get them promoted from the BSP in my first season via the playoffs. Second season, in CC L2 I finished 16th - quite happy with that as feel it is realistic. I bought some better players in January and had a good run second half of season to stave off relegation. 3rd season see's me 4th in CCL2 after 11 games as I added a couple more decent players to the squad in pre-season. I'm not getting instant rip roaring success but am slowly building a good club which is what the game is all about.

I do think it is far easier to attract players in this version. I have managed to pick up several good foreign players from France and Spain that I could never seem to do at teams like Kidderminster on the previous 2 versions of FM.

The best version of FM in at least 3 years for me. Well done SI.

I dont ignore them. I believe that for the most part they have been fixed. since the last patch Ive seen one bug whilst playing a match. one! the euro leagues bug has been fixed. If people take some time to understand the sliders then they are fine.(but i do agree that they need to be looked at)

'massive list'. thats a bit of an overstatement isnt it?

are you not being a little ignorant expecting the game to be perfect? the game is huge. and they did release a patch on release to solve major problems.

@remco, because mate, the majority of people who come on here to complain, have a rant, spout a load of stats that cant possibly be true, 'tried every tactic' etc, say that the game is ruined, and then leave. have you noticed the OP has only left one reply on this thread.

thats why people have a go at them. because they offer no constructive criticism.

i know lots of people are enjoying the game this year, and im sure i will do post-patch, but i wont be buying the game new next year

ill be waiting till its patched up and playable then get it off ebay

dont everybody else do that though or there wont be enough copies left

you all buy it new

or else

To contrast my earlier positive post, there are a couple of things that annoy me. The press conferences are frustrating and boring after a while. Oh, and the stadiums look poor when they are viewing the game in 3D action - it needs some fans in the crowd! I can put up with a few minor problems. People should be more tolerant.

Because of http://www.arinmorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/20040319h.jpg

Asmith -> I agree this version is very good. And I don't say it's too hard. But I think there could be some additions to make it even better. Some time saving issues for me would be very welcome!!!

To contrast my earlier positive post, there are a couple of things that annoy me. The press conferences are frustrating and boring after a while. Oh, and the stadiums look poor when they are viewing the game in 3D action - it needs some fans in the crowd! I can put up with a few minor problems. People should be more tolerant.

That's what I mean!

Thinking about it, the biggest improvement for me is that I bought a new PC around the same time I bought the game so it runs really fast which makes the game flow and so there is less time between me winning all my games!

I dont ignore them. I believe that for the most part they have been fixed. since the last patch Ive seen one bug whilst playing a match. one! the euro leagues bug has been fixed. If people take some time to understand the sliders then they are fine.(but i do agree that they need to be looked at)

'massive list'. thats a bit of an overstatement isnt it?

are you not being a little ignorant expecting the game to be perfect? the game is huge. and they did release a patch on release to solve major problems.

@remco, because mate, the majority of people who come on here to complain, have a rant, spout a load of stats that cant possibly be true, 'tried every tactic' etc, say that the game is ruined, and then leave. have you noticed the OP has only left one reply on this thread.

thats why people have a go at them. because they offer no constructive criticism.

I expect the game to improve year on year. It has barely moved forward for me the last two releases. A lot will disagree, a lot will agree - but the number that agree is rising.

btw, about two months ago I made a long list of bugs i see regularly in the game since 9.2, i might digg it up for you if i can be bothered. Needless to say, it was a long, long list.

Thinking about it, the biggest improvement for me is that I bought a new PC around the same time I bought the game so it runs really fast which makes the game flow and so there is less time between me winning all my games!

Ah, that's my problem I was already thinking about buying a new one, so that should clear everything up

Wakers - can you statistically prove that the number of people that agree with a worsening game is increasing? No, thought not.