White flag in the air.....I give up on FM09 :-(

This is not meant to be a rant or a criticism of the game. I realise many people, particularly after the new patch, are getting a lot of enjoyment out of FM09 and are pleased with the way the game is going. But for me......I just can't spend any more time trying to get my head around a computer game !

I've bought every edition of Football Manager. I'm not a great player by any means, but I've always enjoyed modest success. Whether that be winning the SPL title with my team Rangers or getting a couple of promotions over a period of time with a lower league side. But in this edition, I've been left scratching my head.

From being a decent player in FM08......I've gone to being the most awful player you can imagine in FM09. I'd say I've got a solid amount of general football knowledge, and having bought all the editions of FM I've got a decent understanding of how the game works.....so for me to experience such a sharp ill turn in fortunes from FM08 to FM09 is tough to understand.

I think if you approach a computer game with a good level of football knowledge, you should be able to achieve reasonable results....even if that means falling below the expected standards of the club you take on. But I'm finding that FM09 leaves me getting results and performances that just seem, well, grossly unfair.

As Rangers, I struggle against every team I'm up against. Even relegation battlers in the SPL come to my home ground and outplay me, and each precious win I do achieve is always a grinded out narrow battle, with the stats rarely in my favour.

Now, even the most awful Old Firm managers of recent times actually have ok results against crap teams. The gulf in class often means Old Firm teams can win a lot of games in spite of their manager.......and it's a handful of tough fixtures where they sink or swim. The much ridiculed John Barnes actually won 13 of his 20 SPL fixtures as Celtic manager.

I had a friendly at home against Leverkusen where I had 1 shot off target to their 24 shots, and enjoyed just 35% possession. Now I realise that a team like Leverkusen could travel to Ibrox and win while statistically outplaying me.......but I've never seen anything like those stats in reality. Am I really doing something so horrifically wrong from FM08 to 09 that makes the stats regularly look so woeful ?

In my view football manager has gone from developing into a realistic and challenging management simulation.........into something too complex, and it's now very much a 'game' rather than a 'simulation' attempt. The desire to achieve ultimate realism has actually made the game more unrealistic in my view, with people with decent football knowledge having to come on-line to ask what sliders do, where the odd notch up or down can throw your game plan. Where a team playing a holding player in certain circumstances can cause your own strategy not just become less effective, but fall apart at the seams. And where even players of vastly superior ability fail to compete against much lesser teams week in week out because they haven't had enough time to gel yet.

These are just my own thoughts and frustrations. As I said at the start, this is not meant to be a rant but just a hand in the air to say, as much as I love a challenge, I just now find the game to be unplayable. As I also said, a lot of people obviously have no great issues with the 09 edition, and some even feel it's the best edition. That's great, and if the majority feel that way then SI should certainly continue to keep things going on the same track.

But for me, it's time for retirement unfortunately. I've had a lot of fun out of the FM series over the years, and I hope all of you still playing continue to do so.

i agree i just cant get into it this year

i might buy CM or even the much maligned FIFA manager

Whats the difference between Football Manager & Fifa Manager?

well im not the best. think i will try managing Rangers for the 1st time and see what comes of it.

I would suggest if you want to play FM09 and aren't having much success to take your time and think logically about the decisions you make. Get a solid defense and then build forward. Remember that one decision will impact on many things so to balance everything.

Whats the difference between Football Manager & Fifa Manager?

Football Manager concentrates predominantly (sp?) on the football side of the game while Fifa Manager is very gimmicky and the their attempt of a Match Engine is laughable.

O ok, tbh i was also thinking about getting Fifa Manager, but its a no no for me

O ok, tbh i was also thinking about getting Fifa Manager, but its a no no for me

There are better management games out there; Championship Manager could prove to be a bit of competition.

GersFan I was in the same situation like you

I played Steaua Bucharest,in the first 2 years I struggled with every team because Steaua doesn't have a world-class team,neither does have a huge budget like Shakhtar Donetsk, BUT 2 more years and I have a very good squad and I have supremacy in my league and in Europe

the secret is take the bad with the good,but when you are facing a hard time,try to improve as best as you can

note that tactics are very important in winning matches,and good players,because you need good players to win matches

so from a team that battled for the first 3 places in the league and a 4-th place team in the CL group I created an European Champion

and the their attempt of a Match Engine is laughable.

and FM09's match engine isnt??? :confused:

and FM09's match engine isnt??? :confused:

Correct,

Have to agree with the OP and good post by the way

I havent touched it for a while now and every other FM has kept me hooked for 10 Months or so

I will give it a bash after the new patch is released but as i have said on these boards before, the game has been 'overcooked' in the basic understanding of tactics, teamwork and the whole matchday area.

I dont believe this game has ever been a 'pick up and play' game but now its gone way beyond the usual couple of hours of getting your head around the tactics.

Tactics and style of play are obviously important but if they are SO important, as in this game, it sort of takes the enjoyment out of the other areas of the game (transfers etc) when you know that you can spend 8 million quid on a good striker, only to find he cant score because he hasnt gelled with the groundkeeper.

In my view football manager has gone from developing into a realistic and challenging management simulation.........into something too complex, and it's now very much a 'game' rather than a 'simulation' attempt. The desire to achieve ultimate realism has actually made the game more unrealistic in my view, with people with decent football knowledge having to come on-line to ask what sliders do, where the odd notch up or down can throw your game plan. Where a team playing a holding player in certain circumstances can cause your own strategy not just become less effective, but fall apart at the seams. And where even players of vastly superior ability fail to compete against much lesser teams week in week out because they haven't had enough time to gel yet.

Where I stand a 'game' is more fun and less realistic than a 'simulation'. FM is a simulation because it realistically simulates the football world. It's tough yes, but my tactical knowledge is not what I would call detailed and I have done very well with my chosen team. I think you need to re-think that analogy.

I'm playing as Koper in Slovenia and whilst they are one of the better sides there they don't have great facilities or a huge budget. There are a lot of things that muck you around in FM. If you change your side too much or buy in too many players you can disrupt the team's harmony. I've brought small and sent my scouts out to the more remote footballing communities in the hope of finding that rare, yet cheap, talent. I've also played pretty much the same formation (with a few tweaks) for three years now. It may not have worked well at first but perseverance solved that. Changing my formation every match, until I found one that could win well, would have been a thorn in my side. Players take time to get used to what you want. If you change it then that time is longer.

We will all have our own opinions, and you have expressed your in an appraising manner, but I must say I am finding FM09 a lot of fun. If I have one fault with your post then it is that you don't really go in to any detail. You don't really say what is wrong. It is more thoughts than actualities.

I will say one thing though. I have concerns and I find myself hoping that CM09 is a step up from previous editions of that game. I believe this is the prod in the back that SI need. Whilst they may not feel they are doing so, any development team in such a comfortable leading position is going to find complacency setting in. A good CM will make FM better.

Whats the difference between Football Manager & Fifa Manager?

Fifa Manager is what girls play.

I will say one thing though. I have concerns and I find myself hoping that CM09 is a step up from previous editions of that game. I believe this is the prod in the back that SI need. Whilst they may not feel they are doing so, any development team in such a comfortable leading position is going to find complacency setting in. A good CM will make FM better.

i think FM09 with its 3D engine was always gonna take a bashing and possibly bringing out live at the same time hasnt help FM -- but FM10 will be the real test. I have faith that that will be much improved engine - and therefore FM will again be miles ahead of CM. But a bit of healthy competition between CM and FM will make both games much better - CM has much improved from what i hear to try and catch up FM!

BTW good to see another AFCB fan on here - just noticed your location anagain!!

if you find the game hard, try spending a week reading the tatics frame work file and then starting again and doing thing's different from what you normally do, you will soon learn you can get 30% better results by making the correct decision

FifA manager is a bad game, a footy management game priding itself on graphics and the football side of the game is unenjeyable, if you own it, most people find it performing extremely slow on their computers,

i would much rather jab myself in the eye with a particularly sharp piece of melon than play the FIFA manager games

FM2008 was mostly frustrating for me. Before the final patch I suffered badly with match engine bugs, and after the final patch I never really got going at any club or on any save game.

I am though enjoying FM2009 much more. The game makes more sense to me, and seems more realistic. FM2007 was the series peak for me in terms of enjoyment, but I believe FM2009 can eclipse that.

On FM09 the classic 2D is still best to view matches. IMHO the 3D sucks badly and is totally unnecessary for this kind of games. Otherwise fm09 improvments are quite nice. Still fm08 is nice to play on my laptop (not enough memory for fm09 on it).

FM09 has had it's faults, but i still believe it's the best Manager game out.. FIFA Manager is a load of crap and may aswell do Manager Mode on Fifa 09, and CM doesn't come anywhere near FM! If i was you i'd get CM 01/02 get the updates and Tapani patch which makes it as realistic as you can get and the simple layout makes it much more relaxing to play.

If FM stress's me out i just shove CM 01/02 on and relax and enjoy it.

i have same opinion...that why im tryin to play fm08.....

unless new patch is amazing...i doubt ill be playin 09 anymore

maybe fm10

How odd. This edition is the first time I ever had real success with Preston. So, I've done better this year than in 05-08.

Tactics are all pretty standard- I've never messed with them much. I play 4-4-2, with the wingers pushed up the past couple of seasons. I've not touched the training. My scouting has been average at best, no wonderkid Brazilians or Eastern Europeans for me. But I pick a player fairly well, and deal in the transfer market well- my players have done me proud.

But yeah- certainly haven't found it more difficult to win.

i think SI just forgot what is important about the game.....the answer is the match engine! if they get that right everyone is happy even if the transfer system is messed up, its better than having a match engine that really don't let u enjoy the game!

I agree with the OP (even though he blatently supports Rangers!)

However with reading through the tactics forum ive found what a few of my problems were and have started to sort some of them out - im learning, not alot is done instantly with this game but after a while if you persist with your ideas you should be able to at least start to see where one's going wrong.

I read Loversleapers post (lengthy one at that) along with the person whom he took the idea from and grew his own tactic - gave me an insight how to stop your assistant telling you theres too big a game between def/mid/att.

Anyway - Id say I agree with the OP but with this years game, no matter what team you are, you have to grow your own style on your team before success comes your way....unless you can read a game and match engine like a pro!

Well i enjoyed success with my team man utd in every series. you expect it, because theyr a good side. on this game though iys a fight with chelsea liverpool and arsenal ALL the way. I think now, tactics are pivital - players have to be good. Ive demolished hull, west brom and stoke. I dont know how, but at home we beat liverpool 7-0. Now realism is a dream when i saw that, 3-0 maybe 4 ok. Not 7 though. Use the editor and change a few players so you can start solid and see where it goes?

I totally agree with you (the creator of the topic)...I find it VERY hard to make my team play well, even against crappy teams. And like you I have a good football knowledge and a lot of experience playing FM, since CM 99-00.

Im close to say that the tactical side in FM09 SUCKS!

I will give it a bash after the new patch is released but as i have said on these boards before, the game has been 'overcooked' in the basic understanding of tactics, teamwork and the whole matchday area.

I dont believe this game has ever been a 'pick up and play' game but now its gone way beyond the usual couple of hours of getting your head around the tactics.

Tactics and style of play are obviously important but if they are SO important, as in this game, it sort of takes the enjoyment out of the other areas of the game (transfers etc) when you know that you can spend 8 million quid on a good striker, only to find he cant score because he hasnt gelled with the groundkeeper.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU TOO

FIFA Manager is just terrible.

Got a bit bored there so had another go at playing Leverkusen with Rangers. In the first game I got beaten 5-0, with them having 25 shots to my 2. In the second game I got beat 3-0 with them having 35 shots to my 2.

35 shots. That's just ridiculous. I also had just 35% possession and my passing percentage was in the 40's.

I can accept not being successful, failing to win trophies and eventually being sacked. But come on, it has to be realistic. My mum could manage Rangers to beat Hamilton 7 times out of 10. The gulf in class is simply too big for the managers input to be so hugely important. Yet in FM09 David's are regularly outplaying my Goliath Rangers side in the SPL.

The results and statistics are so ridiculous a lot of the time that for me FM09 is just not realistic anymore. I think SI have taken to an extreme the importance of the role of a manager in each and every game. If Rangers play Celtic, the result could hinge on the slightest detail in terms of the managers preparations. If Rangers play Hamilton.......9 times out of 10 it's simply a case of our boys are much better than yours.

The results and statistics against me make woeful reading. You would think that I must be doing something ridiculous to have relegation sides outplay me at home regularly, and for decent sides like Leverkusen to be putting 35 shots against me. But my tactics aren't ridiculous. I'm not saying they are good, they may be poor. But I refuse to believe that my input deserves the kind of statistics/results that the match engine throws up.

As I've said, I feel I have a solid, if not great, football knowledge and I've had modest success in all other FM's. But FM09 just feels too much like a complex puzzle as opposed to a football simulation, where you have to spend hours of trial and error, or shifting through long detailed essays on an internet forum, before your results, if not even that good, at least start to make some sense.

maybe your players suck and they are not good enough

I had the same thing with Steaua,changed the players and worked

Problem is that tactics play far too big a role in this edition. Though I have never ever been lower than no. 3 in any version, but tactics(and more importantly instructions) is too big a deal really.

i stick to 08, bring back the arrows

Problem is that tactics play far too big a role in this edition. Though I have never ever been lower than no. 3 in any version, but tactics(and more importantly instructions) is too big a deal really.

hahaha. Yes......telling your players how to win a game of football is quite clearly too much.........

35 shots. That's just ridiculous. I also had just 35% possession and my passing percentage was in the 40's.

TBH, Rangers are not the most technicallly gifted team, so having a lower possession % should Ok. Remember their game against Zenit? Bayer are about the same level and are also technically better.

O ok, tbh i was also thinking about getting Fifa Manager, but its a no no for me

Me too!!!!!

TBH, Rangers are not the most technicallly gifted team, so having a lower possession % should Ok. Remember their game against Zenit? Bayer are about the same level and are also technically better.

Against Zenit we had 44% possession. And they had 19 shots to our 8.

Even if for arguments sake the fact I accept that Leverkusen are hitting double the number of shots against me that Barcelona managed when they came to Ibrox......it still doesn't explain why poor SPL teams are coming to Ibrox and regularly outplaying me.

That just isn't realistic. As I said, arguably the worst Celtic manager of recent times, John Barnes, had a record of 13 SPL wins from 20. He didn't fail because teams were coming to Parkhead and playing them off the park. He failed because we were stronger in Old Firm games and his team got 'mugged' against the run of play once too often against the other sides. Celtic lost because of him in certain tricky games, but more often than not managed to win despite him while outplaying the opposition.

No matter who is manager, no matter the tactics they give their players.........the Old Firm will 8 times out of 10 (probably more) enjoy more possession and shots against the rest of the SPL. But that just isn't reflected in FM09.

i'm playing fm 08 again.I play in Mac, and the last patch didn't fix the injuries problem so i got so angry every time that i decided to uninstall it.

if it had no bugs, it would be a supergreat game but...i guess it's the problem of using mac.Good game,bad development.

I would suggest if you want to play FM09 and aren't having much success to take your time and think logically about the decisions you make. Get a solid defense and then build forward. Remember that one decision will impact on many things so to balance everything.

I wholeheartedly agree. Getting a defense to work together as a cohesive unit is the foundation to success. I just finished season 4 in 3rd place in the Championship with Lincoln City and my back 4 have only had minor changes over those years. In the first three of those four years, scoring was a problem, but that was more a function of subpar strikers. This year, I managed to pick up a couple of lads on free - a 6'6" 220 pound beast of a Frenchman and a snazzy AM/FC Italian to support him. If not for QPR and WBA sides that ran away with the top two spots, it would be on to the Premiership with me. As it is, up 2-0 on Hull going into the 2nd leg is ok. Leeds are waiting for the winner for the right to go up!

if you dont like fm '09 , just play fm '07 with newlyu data update at least ill try to get fun with my very old save game till 9.0.3

I wholeheartedly agree. Getting a defense to work together as a cohesive unit is the foundation to success. I just finished season 4 in 3rd place in the Championship with Lincoln City and my back 4 have only had minor changes over those years. In the first three of those four years, scoring was a problem, but that was more a function of subpar strikers. This year, I managed to pick up a couple of lads on free - a 6'6" 220 pound beast of a Frenchman and a snazzy AM/FC Italian to support him. If not for QPR and WBA sides that ran away with the top two spots, it would be on to the Premiership with me. As it is, up 2-0 on Hull going into the 2nd leg is ok. Leeds are waiting for the winner for the right to go up!

I guess that's why i had no problems adjusting to FM'09, since i always tighten up defense first.You can't go out with all guns blazing and try to win that way in modern football.I had to tweak my tactics for awhile(like couple of hours) ,but when i was done i always had more possession and shots then the other side.And we are talking about BSS and 2nd Swedish division teams , not some world class teams.

Afaik, even in IRL , buying some quality striker doesn't mean that he will set league on fire and score tons of goals( see Shevchenko and others ).Buy player that will fit in to your game stile , not one that is known by GT& GP forums.And even that, only after you scout him for consistency , adaptability , injury proneness and such things.

Removal of arrows is one of the best things that happened in FM series, since exploiting those doesn't mean that someone has good knowledge of football as they claim.I am curious why no one is complaining about over-excessive amount of 1 on 1's ,which is far from realism in this and previous version, but only that they are missing to many of them.

With all this , FM 09 has it's own bugs , but is far from being excessively hard or unplayable.

I am not trying to flame OP but , why every poster that criticize game has like member date since 07 or 08 and yet, they are all saying that they played game since like 10+ years ago?

I guess that's why i had no problems adjusting to FM'09, since i always tighten up defense first.You can't go out with all guns blazing and try to win that way in modern football.I had to tweak my tactics for awhile(like couple of hours) ,but when i was done i always had more possession and shots then the other side.And we are talking about BSS and 2nd Swedish division teams , not some world class teams.

Afaik, even in IRL , buying some quality striker doesn't mean that he will set league on fire and score tons of goals( see Shevchenko and others ).Buy player that will fit in to your game stile , not one that is known by GT& GP forums.And even that, only after you scout him for consistency , adaptability , injury proneness and such things.

Removal of arrows is one of the best things that happened in FM series, since exploiting those doesn't mean that someone has good knowledge of football as they claim.I am curious why no one is complaining about over-excessive amount of 1 on 1's ,which is far from realism in this and previous version, but only that they are missing to many of them.

With all this , FM 09 has it's own bugs , but is far from being excessively hard or unplayable.

I am not trying to flame OP but , why every poster that criticize game has like member date since 07 or 08 and yet, they are all saying that they played game since like 10+ years ago?

Just because he hasnt been on the forums very long, doesnt mean he hasnt played the game for years. You dont have to sign up to these forums if you have the game so why even mention it.

Ive had enough too. Usually play it right up to the new one but its too hard for me and its a shame cause its the only game i really play.

Tend to get bored with every team after the first few games and i cant be bothered to read the tactics threads to learn how to play a game ive never had a problem with till this version. Im not a child at school for gods sake having to do homework for a bloody game! Should be able to just pick it up and play without spending hours tweaking sliders to find a tactic that works.

This is my first FM game ever and I must say I really enjoy it.

My first time I obviously failed miserably with my beloved Newcastle United. I found out my tactics were not working at all and eventually I discovered many sites online for this game. The biggest thing that's changed my success is by using the tactics that others have created along with guides on how to get 7 star coaches and the like.

Even so, there are still some teams that I struggle against like no one's business. I'm currently trying to get decent at the game by playing in the MLS with my hometown team. I've been able to beat the big greats such as the Columbus Crew and LA Galaxy, but no matter what I do I lose terribly against FC Dallas. I don't know what else to do.

GersFan - what tactics are you using? What are the mentalities like?

Thats the problem with this game.

Why should we/I/Anyone HAVE to read through a document just to understand the tactics and theories side of the game?

We shouldnt. If we need to know, it should be in the manual.

Using someone elses tactic? Defeats the whole object of the game

Horses for courses

Just because he hasnt been on the forums very long, doesnt mean he hasnt played the game for years. You dont have to sign up to these forums if you have the game so why even mention it.

I would agree with you but as it is huge majority(if not all ) of threads like this is started by someone that is member from 07 or 08.So that leads me to believe that not everyone is sincere about it.

But not to derail the main topic:

Any game in which you can create 6-8 1-on-1 CCC's in every match cannot be that hard. You have hundreds of posts just on this forum where people complaining that their strikers are not scoring against GK in those numbers.

They are all stating that it's not "realistic' to miss that many , but no one is willing to admit that it's not even realistic to have that many 1v1 at first place.

So again , game cannot be that hard (if at all ), if pretty much most of the forum can have avg 6-8 1v1's per game on consistent basis.But it is playable, despite all the bugs and issues, and hopefully will get actually more harder, demanding and realistic with next patch.

I think the problem with the game is that it's trying to become too realistic and complexed,and it's not becoming more real just the opposite.Real life managers do a very hard tasks everyday,and every little thing affects teams either good or bad way.My opinion is that the game should be a mix of realism and joy,and fm2009 surely isn't.

The tactics is a little bit too complex for my tastes. The slider bars being the main problem. I cant imagine real life managers saying to their players that they should have mentality at 7 not 8 or whatever. Other than that the player rating system is pants. Imagine having a discussion with your ass man...'I think Gerrard is playing well, about a 7.1 today'. Why not just, 'Gerrard is playing well today, about an 8'!

These little things I can grin and bear because Im used to this game through years of playing. My housemates however, (new to fm) gave up pretty soon into it because they didnt understand the tactial sliders.